From john.turner at norgg.org  Thu Oct 15 05:42:06 2009
From: john.turner at norgg.org (John Turner)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 10:42:06 +0100
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <3599629A-EC84-4DE6-B522-99C515D845EF@innotts.co.uk>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com> 
	<3599629A-EC84-4DE6-B522-99C515D845EF@innotts.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5b67d7010910150242s1f381214xcb8d226cffddc363@mail.gmail.com>

2009/9/13 Dave Everitt <deveritt at innotts.co.uk>:
> or could they be elsewhere? And which of the many, many finds out there when
> you search e.g. 'Camping Ruby' are 1.9/2.0 relevant? Etc. Ummm [thinks]...
> rubycamping.com, campingruby.com, campingframework.com or (my favourite)
> camping3k.com/org/net are all available...

whywentcamping.com

From deveritt at innotts.co.uk  Thu Oct 15 08:48:06 2009
From: deveritt at innotts.co.uk (Dave Everitt)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 13:48:06 +0100
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <5b67d7010910150242s1f381214xcb8d226cffddc363@mail.gmail.com>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<3599629A-EC84-4DE6-B522-99C515D845EF@innotts.co.uk>
	<5b67d7010910150242s1f381214xcb8d226cffddc363@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ECE31767-853C-4E53-AB57-B69FF3061021@innotts.co.uk>

Nice alternative... all that's needed is a chosen domain, a friendly  
host and to share out the webmastering :-)

With a little commitment from a couple of people, I'd provide the  
hosting and domain.

>> or could they be elsewhere? And which of the many, many finds out  
>> there when
>> you search e.g. 'Camping Ruby' are 1.9/2.0 relevant? Etc. Ummm  
>> [thinks]...
>> rubycamping.com, campingruby.com, campingframework.com or (my  
>> favourite)
>> camping3k.com/org/net are all available...
>
> whywentcamping.com


From mkbunday at stanford.edu  Thu Oct 15 10:00:53 2009
From: mkbunday at stanford.edu (Matt Bunday)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 09:00:53 -0500
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <ECE31767-853C-4E53-AB57-B69FF3061021@innotts.co.uk>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<3599629A-EC84-4DE6-B522-99C515D845EF@innotts.co.uk>
	<5b67d7010910150242s1f381214xcb8d226cffddc363@mail.gmail.com>
	<ECE31767-853C-4E53-AB57-B69FF3061021@innotts.co.uk>
Message-ID: <105591900910150700o262e1903uc7b27b51c671e0a6@mail.gmail.com>

I'm new to Camping (played around with some small apps, but nothing
impressive), but I'd be more than happy to be webmaster. If I could
get someone to work with, that'd be even better, of course.

On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 7:48 AM, Dave Everitt <deveritt at innotts.co.uk> wrote:
> Nice alternative... all that's needed is a chosen domain, a friendly host
> and to share out the webmastering :-)
>
> With a little commitment from a couple of people, I'd provide the hosting
> and domain.
>

-- 
Matthew Bunday

From deveritt at innotts.co.uk  Thu Oct 15 11:11:39 2009
From: deveritt at innotts.co.uk (Dave Everitt)
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 16:11:39 +0100
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <105591900910150700o262e1903uc7b27b51c671e0a6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<3599629A-EC84-4DE6-B522-99C515D845EF@innotts.co.uk>
	<5b67d7010910150242s1f381214xcb8d226cffddc363@mail.gmail.com>
	<ECE31767-853C-4E53-AB57-B69FF3061021@innotts.co.uk>
	<105591900910150700o262e1903uc7b27b51c671e0a6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <06DC34A0-BEF7-4974-97D9-4A51C3F25493@innotts.co.uk>

Hi Matt - great, that's a start. One more person and we're there! - Dave

> I'm new to Camping (played around with some small apps, but nothing
> impressive), but I'd be more than happy to be webmaster. If I could
> get someone to work with, that'd be even better, of course.
>
>> Nice alternative... all that's needed is a chosen domain, a  
>> friendly host
>> and to share out the webmastering :-)
>>
>> With a little commitment from a couple of people, I'd provide the  
>> hosting
>> and domain.


From judofyr at gmail.com  Sat Oct 17 17:32:03 2009
From: judofyr at gmail.com (Magnus Holm)
Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 23:32:03 +0200
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <1d87b3640910150818q278a915dy91de36e7e1c75182@mail.gmail.com>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com> 
	<3599629A-EC84-4DE6-B522-99C515D845EF@innotts.co.uk>
	<5b67d7010910150242s1f381214xcb8d226cffddc363@mail.gmail.com> 
	<ECE31767-853C-4E53-AB57-B69FF3061021@innotts.co.uk>
	<105591900910150700o262e1903uc7b27b51c671e0a6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<06DC34A0-BEF7-4974-97D9-4A51C3F25493@innotts.co.uk>
	<1d87b3640910150818q278a915dy91de36e7e1c75182@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <391a49da0910171432h6d1ba565u6e3e12ddef33af67@mail.gmail.com>

Awesome suggestion, but we let's not forget that camping.rubyforge.org
has served us well :-)

//Magnus Holm



On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 17:18, Matt Zukowski <matt at roughest.net> wrote:
> I second the whywentcamping.com domain.
>
> On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 11:11 AM, Dave Everitt <deveritt at innotts.co.uk>
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Matt - great, that's a start. One more person and we're there! - Dave
>>
>>> I'm new to Camping (played around with some small apps, but nothing
>>> impressive), but I'd be more than happy to be webmaster. If I could
>>> get someone to work with, that'd be even better, of course.
>>>
>>>> Nice alternative... all that's needed is a chosen domain, a friendly
>>>> host
>>>> and to share out the webmastering :-)
>>>>
>>>> With a little commitment from a couple of people, I'd provide the
>>>> hosting
>>>> and domain.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Camping-list mailing list
>> Camping-list at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Camping-list mailing list
> Camping-list at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list
>

From deveritt at innotts.co.uk  Sun Oct 18 06:03:11 2009
From: deveritt at innotts.co.uk (Dave Everitt)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 11:03:11 +0100
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <391a49da0910171432h6d1ba565u6e3e12ddef33af67@mail.gmail.com>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<3599629A-EC84-4DE6-B522-99C515D845EF@innotts.co.uk>
	<5b67d7010910150242s1f381214xcb8d226cffddc363@mail.gmail.com>
	<ECE31767-853C-4E53-AB57-B69FF3061021@innotts.co.uk>
	<105591900910150700o262e1903uc7b27b51c671e0a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<06DC34A0-BEF7-4974-97D9-4A51C3F25493@innotts.co.uk>
	<1d87b3640910150818q278a915dy91de36e7e1c75182@mail.gmail.com>
	<391a49da0910171432h6d1ba565u6e3e12ddef33af67@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <38A727BD-2896-4D1B-8F1E-FD24C06476A0@innotts.co.uk>

Agreed, but ideally it would be great to have it updated as the dead  
links (redhanded.hobix.com, code.whytheluckystiff.net etc.) give the  
impression that Camping is neglected (also with the CHANGELOG frozen  
at 1.5 in 2006), and that's a bit sad for such a nice little  
framework! Perhaps the community could list and collate the necessary  
changes/updates on each page, then updating could be shared (I'd be  
more than willing to do updates)?

An external website would be an extra to collect links and provide an  
overview, with - say - where get Camping, recent examples from the  
community, how-to guides (or links and previews), etc. all in one SEO- 
optimised place. Also, Camping does have some advantages over - say -  
Sinatra (one being that Sintra needs a reload with each code update)  
- these aren't immediately apparent unless pointed out. A few of the  
best Ruby Micro-frameworks deserve a fair hearing, and Camping isn't  
getting all the web presence it deserves - that's what motivates me!

- Dave Everitt

> Awesome suggestion, but we let's not forget that  
> camping.rubyforge.org has served us well :-)
> //Magnus Holm
>
>> I second the whywentcamping.com domain.
>>
>>> Dave: great, that's a start. One more person and we're there!
>>>
>>>> Matt: I'm new to Camping (played around with some small apps,  
>>>> but nothing impressive), but I'd be more than happy to be  
>>>> webmaster. If I could get someone to work with, that'd be even  
>>>> better, of course.
>>>>
>>>>> Dave: Nice alternative... all that's needed is a chosen domain,  
>>>>> a friendly host and to share out the webmastering :-) With a  
>>>>> little commitment from a couple of people, I'd provide the  
>>>>> hosting and domain.


From julian.tarkhanov at gmail.com  Sun Oct 18 09:41:27 2009
From: julian.tarkhanov at gmail.com (Julik Tarkhanov)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 15:41:27 +0200
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <38A727BD-2896-4D1B-8F1E-FD24C06476A0@innotts.co.uk>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<3599629A-EC84-4DE6-B522-99C515D845EF@innotts.co.uk>
	<5b67d7010910150242s1f381214xcb8d226cffddc363@mail.gmail.com>
	<ECE31767-853C-4E53-AB57-B69FF3061021@innotts.co.uk>
	<105591900910150700o262e1903uc7b27b51c671e0a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<06DC34A0-BEF7-4974-97D9-4A51C3F25493@innotts.co.uk>
	<1d87b3640910150818q278a915dy91de36e7e1c75182@mail.gmail.com>
	<391a49da0910171432h6d1ba565u6e3e12ddef33af67@mail.gmail.com>
	<38A727BD-2896-4D1B-8F1E-FD24C06476A0@innotts.co.uk>
Message-ID: <C9FEC89E-B6A3-480E-8352-4E399A7D6D07@gmail.com>


On 18 Oct 2009, at 12:03, Dave Everitt wrote:

> Perhaps the community could list and collate the necessary changes/ 
> updates on each page, then updating could be shared (I'd be more  
> than willing to do updates)?


A new site shared over githubz would be nice.
-- 
Julik Tarkhanov
me at julik.nl






From ruby at monnet-usa.com  Sun Oct 18 09:47:34 2009
From: ruby at monnet-usa.com (Philippe Monnet)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 07:47:34 -0600
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <38A727BD-2896-4D1B-8F1E-FD24C06476A0@innotts.co.uk>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>	<3599629A-EC84-4DE6-B522-99C515D845EF@innotts.co.uk>	<5b67d7010910150242s1f381214xcb8d226cffddc363@mail.gmail.com>	<ECE31767-853C-4E53-AB57-B69FF3061021@innotts.co.uk>	<105591900910150700o262e1903uc7b27b51c671e0a6@mail.gmail.com>	<06DC34A0-BEF7-4974-97D9-4A51C3F25493@innotts.co.uk>	<1d87b3640910150818q278a915dy91de36e7e1c75182@mail.gmail.com>	<391a49da0910171432h6d1ba565u6e3e12ddef33af67@mail.gmail.com>
	<38A727BD-2896-4D1B-8F1E-FD24C06476A0@innotts.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4ADB1C76.9000706@monnet-usa.com>

I like the idea of updating the  rubyforge site,  but  having a main  
site  to  publicize  Camping would  be a nice addition and would  have 
the benefit of being easier for people to find or remember (especially 
if they are new to Ruby). I really like:

    * rubycamping.com
    * campingframework.com

Here is an additional suggestion: rubyoncamping.com (like ROR).
The new site could act as a portal for everything Camping, such as news, 
rotating features on sites using Camping, code snippets, etc.

Philippe

Dave Everitt wrote:
> Agreed, but ideally it would be great to have it updated as the dead 
> links (redhanded.hobix.com, code.whytheluckystiff.net etc.) give the 
> impression that Camping is neglected (also with the CHANGELOG frozen 
> at 1.5 in 2006), and that's a bit sad for such a nice little 
> framework! Perhaps the community could list and collate the necessary 
> changes/updates on each page, then updating could be shared (I'd be 
> more than willing to do updates)?
>
> An external website would be an extra to collect links and provide an 
> overview, with - say - where get Camping, recent examples from the 
> community, how-to guides (or links and previews), etc. all in one 
> SEO-optimised place. Also, Camping does have some advantages over - 
> say - Sinatra (one being that Sintra needs a reload with each code 
> update) - these aren't immediately apparent unless pointed out. A few 
> of the best Ruby Micro-frameworks deserve a fair hearing, and Camping 
> isn't getting all the web presence it deserves - that's what motivates 
> me!
>
> - Dave Everitt
>
>> Awesome suggestion, but we let's not forget that 
>> camping.rubyforge.org has served us well :-)
>> //Magnus Holm
>>
>>> I second the whywentcamping.com domain.
>>>
>>>> Dave: great, that's a start. One more person and we're there!
>>>>
>>>>> Matt: I'm new to Camping (played around with some small apps, but 
>>>>> nothing impressive), but I'd be more than happy to be webmaster. 
>>>>> If I could get someone to work with, that'd be even better, of 
>>>>> course.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dave: Nice alternative... all that's needed is a chosen domain, a 
>>>>>> friendly host and to share out the webmastering :-) With a little 
>>>>>> commitment from a couple of people, I'd provide the hosting and 
>>>>>> domain.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Camping-list mailing list
> Camping-list at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list
>

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From john.beppu at gmail.com  Sun Oct 18 11:30:53 2009
From: john.beppu at gmail.com (John Beppu)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 08:30:53 -0700
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <4ADB1C76.9000706@monnet-usa.com>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<3599629A-EC84-4DE6-B522-99C515D845EF@innotts.co.uk>
	<5b67d7010910150242s1f381214xcb8d226cffddc363@mail.gmail.com>
	<ECE31767-853C-4E53-AB57-B69FF3061021@innotts.co.uk>
	<105591900910150700o262e1903uc7b27b51c671e0a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<06DC34A0-BEF7-4974-97D9-4A51C3F25493@innotts.co.uk>
	<1d87b3640910150818q278a915dy91de36e7e1c75182@mail.gmail.com>
	<391a49da0910171432h6d1ba565u6e3e12ddef33af67@mail.gmail.com>
	<38A727BD-2896-4D1B-8F1E-FD24C06476A0@innotts.co.uk>
	<4ADB1C76.9000706@monnet-usa.com>
Message-ID: <21a10fe00910180830t27892e1fs105a377f8138df19@mail.gmail.com>

I like the domain whywentcamping.com .
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From deveritt at innotts.co.uk  Sun Oct 18 12:32:01 2009
From: deveritt at innotts.co.uk (Dave Everitt)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 17:32:01 +0100
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <4ADB1C76.9000706@monnet-usa.com>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>	<3599629A-EC84-4DE6-B522-99C515D845EF@innotts.co.uk>	<5b67d7010910150242s1f381214xcb8d226cffddc363@mail.gmail.com>	<ECE31767-853C-4E53-AB57-B69FF3061021@innotts.co.uk>	<105591900910150700o262e1903uc7b27b51c671e0a6@mail.gmail.com>	<06DC34A0-BEF7-4974-97D9-4A51C3F25493@innotts.co.uk>	<1d87b3640910150818q278a915dy91de36e7e1c75182@mail.gmail.com>	<391a49da0910171432h6d1ba565u6e3e12ddef33af67@mail.gmail.com>
	<38A727BD-2896-4D1B-8F1E-FD24C06476A0@innotts.co.uk>
	<4ADB1C76.9000706@monnet-usa.com>
Message-ID: <A07D5BB4-8A82-417B-8AD9-0CC896DE5B5C@innotts.co.uk>

@Philippe:
Agreed - if Camping is going to get any mindshare it does need a  
portal one-stop site.
BTW rubyoncamping - ROC (as in 'solid as a...' :-? )

So... .com/org/net(all?) domain options (bearing in mind SEO- 
friendliness and availability) - [ ] = add a score out of 10:
rubycamping.com [ ]
campingframework.com [ ]
rubyoncamping.com [ ]
whywentcamping.com [ ]

Domains cost around ?12 p.a., which I'm sure we can find between us.  
Hosting (I imagine with all the sysadmins and webmasters on this  
list ;-) is effectively free.

@Julik:
> A new site shared over githubz would be nice
You'll have heard that _why's inheritance already has a preservation  
plan (see 'Decentralization of _why's Projects' at http:// 
whymirror.github.com) - there's a lot of [planning|thinking|reporting  
on what's happening] there, and Magnus is already part-time  
'scoutmaster' for Camping at http://github.com/camping/camping ... or  
did you mean something other?

- Dave

> I like the idea of updating the  rubyforge site,  but  having a  
> main  site  to  publicize  Camping would  be a nice addition and  
> would  have the benefit of being easier for people to find or  
> remember (especially if they are new to Ruby). I really like:
> rubycamping.com
> campingframework.com
> Here is an additional suggestion: rubyoncamping.com (like ROR).
> The new site could act as a portal for everything Camping, such as  
> news, rotating features on sites using Camping, code snippets, etc.
>
> Philippe
>
> Dave Everitt wrote:
>>
>> Agreed, but ideally it would be great to have it updated as the  
>> dead links (redhanded.hobix.com, code.whytheluckystiff.net etc.)  
>> give the impression that Camping is neglected (also with the  
>> CHANGELOG frozen at 1.5 in 2006), and that's a bit sad for such a  
>> nice little framework! Perhaps the community could list and  
>> collate the necessary changes/updates on each page, then updating  
>> could be shared (I'd be more than willing to do updates)?
>>
>> An external website would be an extra to collect links and provide  
>> an overview, with - say - where get Camping, recent examples from  
>> the community, how-to guides (or links and previews), etc. all in  
>> one SEO-optimised place. Also, Camping does have some advantages  
>> over - say - Sinatra (one being that Sintra needs a reload with  
>> each code update) - these aren't immediately apparent unless  
>> pointed out. A few of the best Ruby Micro-frameworks deserve a  
>> fair hearing, and Camping isn't getting all the web presence it  
>> deserves - that's what motivates me!
>>
>> - Dave Everitt


From jonathan.hickford+camping at gmail.com  Sun Oct 18 13:59:31 2009
From: jonathan.hickford+camping at gmail.com (Jonathan Hickford)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 18:59:31 +0100
Subject: Camping sessions issue (and fix?) when mounting multiple apps
Message-ID: <ccf2970a0910181059h71f72463v81b8ec8acd702e8a@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

Not sure where best to raise this (github issues?) but I'm seeing an
issue with the cookie sessions in camping 2.0 using rack.  If I mount
an app such as the example blog or the sessions test app at any url
that is not the root session information is lost in some cases.  Same
thing happens if I use the built in Camping server.

For example if I mount the blog app using rackup at '/blog' I'm unable
to log in.  If I mount the sessions test app the information added on
the second page is lost when it reaches page three.  Looking at the
cookies in the browser I can see two state cookies set with the paths
'/' and '/blog/'.

I'm guessing this is to do with Rack::Session::Cookie in session.rb,
which will default to use :path => '/' in all cases.  If I explicitly
add :path => '/blog/' there it starts working as expected.  Some more
detailed outputs here (this will run from /test)
http://pastebin.com/m6c13a4aa

Is that me doing something crazy there (I'm not expert!) or is that a
bug?  If that's an issue I think the below change to session.rb fixes
it, passing in the apps @root into the path Rack's session cookie
middleware.  I can push that somewhere if we reckon that's a fix?

- app.use Rack::Session::Cookie, :key => key, :secret => secret
+ app.use Rack::Session::Cookie, :key => key, :secret => secret, :path => @root

Regards,

Jon

From zimbatm at oree.ch  Sun Oct 18 15:53:55 2009
From: zimbatm at oree.ch (zimbatm)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 21:53:55 +0200
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <A07D5BB4-8A82-417B-8AD9-0CC896DE5B5C@innotts.co.uk>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<5b67d7010910150242s1f381214xcb8d226cffddc363@mail.gmail.com>
	<ECE31767-853C-4E53-AB57-B69FF3061021@innotts.co.uk>
	<105591900910150700o262e1903uc7b27b51c671e0a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<06DC34A0-BEF7-4974-97D9-4A51C3F25493@innotts.co.uk>
	<1d87b3640910150818q278a915dy91de36e7e1c75182@mail.gmail.com>
	<391a49da0910171432h6d1ba565u6e3e12ddef33af67@mail.gmail.com>
	<38A727BD-2896-4D1B-8F1E-FD24C06476A0@innotts.co.uk>
	<4ADB1C76.9000706@monnet-usa.com>
	<A07D5BB4-8A82-417B-8AD9-0CC896DE5B5C@innotts.co.uk>
Message-ID: <e3caf1460910181253r15f455ega809336c87b7e94a@mail.gmail.com>

+1 for whywentcamping.com

From peterretief at gmail.com  Sun Oct 18 16:11:00 2009
From: peterretief at gmail.com (Peter Retief)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 22:11:00 +0200
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <e3caf1460910181253r15f455ega809336c87b7e94a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<ECE31767-853C-4E53-AB57-B69FF3061021@innotts.co.uk>
	<105591900910150700o262e1903uc7b27b51c671e0a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<06DC34A0-BEF7-4974-97D9-4A51C3F25493@innotts.co.uk>
	<1d87b3640910150818q278a915dy91de36e7e1c75182@mail.gmail.com>
	<391a49da0910171432h6d1ba565u6e3e12ddef33af67@mail.gmail.com>
	<38A727BD-2896-4D1B-8F1E-FD24C06476A0@innotts.co.uk>
	<4ADB1C76.9000706@monnet-usa.com>
	<A07D5BB4-8A82-417B-8AD9-0CC896DE5B5C@innotts.co.uk>
	<e3caf1460910181253r15f455ega809336c87b7e94a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <b85b3f460910181311t4fc71cf1l65f0b3a3670d3c9d@mail.gmail.com>

I need to know if _why is OK, I need a sign?

2009/10/18 zimbatm <zimbatm at oree.ch>:
> +1 for whywentcamping.com
> _______________________________________________
> Camping-list mailing list
> Camping-list at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list
>

From cdcarter at gmail.com  Sun Oct 18 15:57:18 2009
From: cdcarter at gmail.com (Christian Carter)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 15:57:18 -0400
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <e3caf1460910181253r15f455ega809336c87b7e94a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com> 
	<ECE31767-853C-4E53-AB57-B69FF3061021@innotts.co.uk>
	<105591900910150700o262e1903uc7b27b51c671e0a6@mail.gmail.com> 
	<06DC34A0-BEF7-4974-97D9-4A51C3F25493@innotts.co.uk>
	<1d87b3640910150818q278a915dy91de36e7e1c75182@mail.gmail.com> 
	<391a49da0910171432h6d1ba565u6e3e12ddef33af67@mail.gmail.com> 
	<38A727BD-2896-4D1B-8F1E-FD24C06476A0@innotts.co.uk>
	<4ADB1C76.9000706@monnet-usa.com> 
	<A07D5BB4-8A82-417B-8AD9-0CC896DE5B5C@innotts.co.uk>
	<e3caf1460910181253r15f455ega809336c87b7e94a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <86987bdf0910181257i2ad71193xf09a7a7a69a9a350@mail.gmail.com>

Another for whywentcamping.com

We shouldn't try and make ourselves look like ROR, Camping is it's own crazy
system.

Christian Carter
612.327.5292


On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 3:53 PM, zimbatm <zimbatm at oree.ch> wrote:

> +1 for whywentcamping.com
> _______________________________________________
> Camping-list mailing list
> Camping-list at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list
>
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From judofyr at gmail.com  Sun Oct 18 16:31:05 2009
From: judofyr at gmail.com (Magnus Holm)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 22:31:05 +0200
Subject: Camping sessions issue (and fix?) when mounting multiple apps
In-Reply-To: <ccf2970a0910181059h71f72463v81b8ec8acd702e8a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ccf2970a0910181059h71f72463v81b8ec8acd702e8a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <391a49da0910181331j1acc0d7cqc9c497af52228441@mail.gmail.com>

Wow, great catch! This is definitely a bug. I guess this should go to
GitHub issues, yes.

This is actually an issue where Camping and Rack::Session::Cookie fight:

At the first request, sessions.state is set in ::Cookie after Camping
has done its magic.

At the second request, Camping loads @state from @env['rack.state'],
the app changes the session, but @cookie['sessions.state'] stays
intact. Camping's #to_a then sets the cookies again in the response:

      @cookies.each do |k, v|
        v = {:value => v, :path => self / "/"} if String === v
        r.set_cookie(k, v)
      end

Which means that it sets a sessions.state-cookie at /sessions/. Then
::Cookies kicks in and figures out that the sessions have changed and
sets a new cookie, but this time at /. (This also has the effect that
Camping copies all the cookies at / into /sessions/)

At the third request, Rack chooses cookies "such that those with more
specific Path attributes precede those with less specific", and the
cookie at /sessions/ wins.

Your fix won't unfornately work because @root is only available inside
a request/controller.

I think we need to do two things:
* Make sure Camping only sets cookies when they've changed.
* Figure out a way to set :path to SCRIPT_NAME. If so, this should
only be an option, as you might also want to mount two apps and have
them share the sessions (aka :path => '/').

I'm not quite sure how we should add that option, though. We could
switch Camping::Session to be a middleware, but this means all apps
will have to change "include Camping::Session" to "use
Camping::Session". It's maybe not such a big deal? We should at least
do these kind of changes *before* the release of 2.0.

Some examples:

# Middleware
use Camping::Session, :secret => "foo", :shared => true

# Subclass
include Camping::Session::Shared
secret "foo"

# New method
include Camping::Session
secret "foo"
shared_cookie!

# Merge #secret and #shared_cookie! together
include Camping::Session
session_options :secret => "foo", :shared => true


I think I actually prefer the middleware-version. It's short and
concise and can be extended with more options if needed.

What do you think?


//Magnus Holm



On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 19:59, Jonathan Hickford
<jonathan.hickford+camping at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Not sure where best to raise this (github issues?) but I'm seeing an
> issue with the cookie sessions in camping 2.0 using rack. ?If I mount
> an app such as the example blog or the sessions test app at any url
> that is not the root session information is lost in some cases. ?Same
> thing happens if I use the built in Camping server.
>
> For example if I mount the blog app using rackup at '/blog' I'm unable
> to log in. ?If I mount the sessions test app the information added on
> the second page is lost when it reaches page three. ?Looking at the
> cookies in the browser I can see two state cookies set with the paths
> '/' and '/blog/'.
>
> I'm guessing this is to do with Rack::Session::Cookie in session.rb,
> which will default to use :path => '/' in all cases. ?If I explicitly
> add :path => '/blog/' there it starts working as expected. ?Some more
> detailed outputs here (this will run from /test)
> http://pastebin.com/m6c13a4aa
>
> Is that me doing something crazy there (I'm not expert!) or is that a
> bug? ?If that's an issue I think the below change to session.rb fixes
> it, passing in the apps @root into the path Rack's session cookie
> middleware. ?I can push that somewhere if we reckon that's a fix?
>
> - app.use Rack::Session::Cookie, :key => key, :secret => secret
> + app.use Rack::Session::Cookie, :key => key, :secret => secret, :path => @root
>
> Regards,
>
> Jon
> _______________________________________________
> Camping-list mailing list
> Camping-list at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list
>

From judofyr at gmail.com  Sun Oct 18 17:01:34 2009
From: judofyr at gmail.com (Magnus Holm)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 23:01:34 +0200
Subject: What should the portal-site contain?
Message-ID: <391a49da0910181401r565cab4aqb695c4be6b90f27@mail.gmail.com>

Okay, it looks like many want to have a portal-site (if not only for
the domain), so I think it's a good idea to brainstorm a bit on what
we should place there.

Here's what Camping currently have:

Source: http://github.com/camping/camping
Mailing list: rubyforge.org/something/I-always-google
Bugs: http://github.com/camping/camping/issues
Wiki: http://wiki.github.com/camping/camping
Docs: http://camping.rubyforge.org/
Book: http://camping.rubyforge.org/book.html (not yet, but hopefully soon)

The only thing I miss, is a blog-ish thing where we can post updates.

And also think the README at the docs would be a pretty good
index.html if we just clean it up a bit.

Just so you know, I've been messing a bit with the template, so it
looks a bit different:
README: http://stuff.judofyr.net/camping-docs/
Reference: http://stuff.judofyr.net/camping-docs/api.html
Book: http://stuff.judofyr.net/camping-docs/book.html

(Have a look at the new reference and tell me what you think. The main
idea is to bring all the docs into a single page, and rather use
javascript to show/hide sections. Yes, I know that you can't expand
the methods yet. As for the book: It was just something I threw
together and I hope some of you might want to improve it. But more
about that later! This is basically just a preview of a preview of the
new docs; I'll see if I can get it into a commit-able state so you can
mess with it if you want).

//Magnus Holm

From blueberry at creativepony.com  Sun Oct 18 16:56:56 2009
From: blueberry at creativepony.com (Jenna Fox)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 07:56:56 +1100
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <b85b3f460910181311t4fc71cf1l65f0b3a3670d3c9d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<ECE31767-853C-4E53-AB57-B69FF3061021@innotts.co.uk>
	<105591900910150700o262e1903uc7b27b51c671e0a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<06DC34A0-BEF7-4974-97D9-4A51C3F25493@innotts.co.uk>
	<1d87b3640910150818q278a915dy91de36e7e1c75182@mail.gmail.com>
	<391a49da0910171432h6d1ba565u6e3e12ddef33af67@mail.gmail.com>
	<38A727BD-2896-4D1B-8F1E-FD24C06476A0@innotts.co.uk>
	<4ADB1C76.9000706@monnet-usa.com>
	<A07D5BB4-8A82-417B-8AD9-0CC896DE5B5C@innotts.co.uk>
	<e3caf1460910181253r15f455ega809336c87b7e94a@mail.gmail.com>
	<b85b3f460910181311t4fc71cf1l65f0b3a3670d3c9d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8D7422D6-14D7-492A-93F2-490F5D8AC4C6@creativepony.com>

I also like whywentcamping.com :)

As for a sign, do not fret, for he is at a better place now, where  
there are plentiful tasty chickpea burgers, and friends and family. He  
just needed to not be _why for a while. We don't know how long, or for  
what reason, but he is certainly fine. :)

http://twitter.com/cloudeight/status/3480155399


On 19/10/2009, at 7:11 AM, Peter Retief wrote:

> I need to know if _why is OK, I need a sign?
>
> 2009/10/18 zimbatm <zimbatm at oree.ch>:
>> +1 for whywentcamping.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Camping-list mailing list
>> Camping-list at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Camping-list mailing list
> Camping-list at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list


From ruby at monnet-usa.com  Sun Oct 18 18:33:07 2009
From: ruby at monnet-usa.com (Philippe Monnet)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 16:33:07 -0600
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <A07D5BB4-8A82-417B-8AD9-0CC896DE5B5C@innotts.co.uk>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>	<3599629A-EC84-4DE6-B522-99C515D845EF@innotts.co.uk>	<5b67d7010910150242s1f381214xcb8d226cffddc363@mail.gmail.com>	<ECE31767-853C-4E53-AB57-B69FF3061021@innotts.co.uk>	<105591900910150700o262e1903uc7b27b51c671e0a6@mail.gmail.com>	<06DC34A0-BEF7-4974-97D9-4A51C3F25493@innotts.co.uk>	<1d87b3640910150818q278a915dy91de36e7e1c75182@mail.gmail.com>	<391a49da0910171432h6d1ba565u6e3e12ddef33af67@mail.gmail.com>	<38A727BD-2896-4D1B-8F1E-FD24C06476A0@innotts.co.uk>	<4ADB1C76.9000706@monnet-usa.com>
	<A07D5BB4-8A82-417B-8AD9-0CC896DE5B5C@innotts.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4ADB97A3.4050201@monnet-usa.com>

rubycamping.com [9]
campingframework.com [2]
rubyoncamping.com [10]
whywentcamping.com [1] (cute but I wonder if people may skip the site 
link by thinking it has nothing to do with Ruby)

I feel that having the word Ruby in the name would be good for SEO and 
more likely to incite people not familiar with Camping to click on a 
link due to the association with Ruby.


Dave Everitt wrote:
> @Philippe:
> Agreed - if Camping is going to get any mindshare it does need a 
> portal one-stop site.
> BTW rubyoncamping - ROC (as in 'solid as a...' :-? )
>
> So... .com/org/net(all?) domain options (bearing in mind 
> SEO-friendliness and availability) - [ ] = add a score out of 10:
> rubycamping.com [ ]
> campingframework.com [ ]
> rubyoncamping.com [ ]
> whywentcamping.com [ ]
>
> Domains cost around ?12 p.a., which I'm sure we can find between us. 
> Hosting (I imagine with all the sysadmins and webmasters on this list 
> ;-) is effectively free.
>
> @Julik:
>> A new site shared over githubz would be nice
> You'll have heard that _why's inheritance already has a preservation 
> plan (see 'Decentralization of _why's Projects' at 
> http://whymirror.github.com) - there's a lot of 
> [planning|thinking|reporting on what's happening] there, and Magnus is 
> already part-time 'scoutmaster' for Camping at 
> http://github.com/camping/camping ... or did you mean something other?
>
> - Dave
>
>> I like the idea of updating the  rubyforge site,  but  having a main  
>> site  to  publicize  Camping would  be a nice addition and would  
>> have the benefit of being easier for people to find or remember 
>> (especially if they are new to Ruby). I really like:
>> rubycamping.com
>> campingframework.com
>> Here is an additional suggestion: rubyoncamping.com (like ROR).
>> The new site could act as a portal for everything Camping, such as 
>> news, rotating features on sites using Camping, code snippets, etc.
>>
>> Philippe
>>
>> Dave Everitt wrote:
>>>
>>> Agreed, but ideally it would be great to have it updated as the dead 
>>> links (redhanded.hobix.com, code.whytheluckystiff.net etc.) give the 
>>> impression that Camping is neglected (also with the CHANGELOG frozen 
>>> at 1.5 in 2006), and that's a bit sad for such a nice little 
>>> framework! Perhaps the community could list and collate the 
>>> necessary changes/updates on each page, then updating could be 
>>> shared (I'd be more than willing to do updates)?
>>>
>>> An external website would be an extra to collect links and provide 
>>> an overview, with - say - where get Camping, recent examples from 
>>> the community, how-to guides (or links and previews), etc. all in 
>>> one SEO-optimised place. Also, Camping does have some advantages 
>>> over - say - Sinatra (one being that Sintra needs a reload with each 
>>> code update) - these aren't immediately apparent unless pointed out. 
>>> A few of the best Ruby Micro-frameworks deserve a fair hearing, and 
>>> Camping isn't getting all the web presence it deserves - that's what 
>>> motivates me!
>>>
>>> - Dave Everitt
>
> _______________________________________________
> Camping-list mailing list
> Camping-list at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list
>

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From aredridel at nbtsc.org  Sun Oct 18 18:17:48 2009
From: aredridel at nbtsc.org (Aria Stewart)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 16:17:48 -0600
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <8D7422D6-14D7-492A-93F2-490F5D8AC4C6@creativepony.com>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<ECE31767-853C-4E53-AB57-B69FF3061021@innotts.co.uk>
	<105591900910150700o262e1903uc7b27b51c671e0a6@mail.gmail.com>
	<06DC34A0-BEF7-4974-97D9-4A51C3F25493@innotts.co.uk>
	<1d87b3640910150818q278a915dy91de36e7e1c75182@mail.gmail.com>
	<391a49da0910171432h6d1ba565u6e3e12ddef33af67@mail.gmail.com>
	<38A727BD-2896-4D1B-8F1E-FD24C06476A0@innotts.co.uk>
	<4ADB1C76.9000706@monnet-usa.com>
	<A07D5BB4-8A82-417B-8AD9-0CC896DE5B5C@innotts.co.uk>
	<e3caf1460910181253r15f455ega809336c87b7e94a@mail.gmail.com>
	<b85b3f460910181311t4fc71cf1l65f0b3a3670d3c9d@mail.gmail.com>
	<8D7422D6-14D7-492A-93F2-490F5D8AC4C6@creativepony.com>
Message-ID: <E6B98DC6-41BA-4C12-808C-9D49FC17046C@nbtsc.org>


On Oct 18, 2009, at 2:56 PM, Jenna Fox wrote:

> I also like whywentcamping.com :)

+1!

From ruby at monnet-usa.com  Sun Oct 18 18:47:48 2009
From: ruby at monnet-usa.com (Philippe Monnet)
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 16:47:48 -0600
Subject: What should the portal-site contain?
In-Reply-To: <391a49da0910181401r565cab4aqb695c4be6b90f27@mail.gmail.com>
References: <391a49da0910181401r565cab4aqb695c4be6b90f27@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4ADB9B14.6050806@monnet-usa.com>

Another couple suggestions for the portal: rotating content (to keep the 
site fresh)
- features on sites using Camping
- code snippets
- interesting extensions (e.g. OpenID, Windows Auth, REST, ...)
Maybe we could also use some of Why's cartoons (see his sidebar 
<http://mislav.uniqpath.com/poignant-guide/book/chapter-3.html> on 
Commercial Uses of the (Poignant) Guide). This could make the site 
visually fun too.

Magnus Holm wrote:
> Okay, it looks like many want to have a portal-site (if not only for
> the domain), so I think it's a good idea to brainstorm a bit on what
> we should place there.
>
> Here's what Camping currently have:
>
> Source: http://github.com/camping/camping
> Mailing list: rubyforge.org/something/I-always-google
> Bugs: http://github.com/camping/camping/issues
> Wiki: http://wiki.github.com/camping/camping
> Docs: http://camping.rubyforge.org/
> Book: http://camping.rubyforge.org/book.html (not yet, but hopefully soon)
>
> The only thing I miss, is a blog-ish thing where we can post updates.
>
> And also think the README at the docs would be a pretty good
> index.html if we just clean it up a bit.
>
> Just so you know, I've been messing a bit with the template, so it
> looks a bit different:
> README: http://stuff.judofyr.net/camping-docs/
> Reference: http://stuff.judofyr.net/camping-docs/api.html
> Book: http://stuff.judofyr.net/camping-docs/book.html
>
> (Have a look at the new reference and tell me what you think. The main
> idea is to bring all the docs into a single page, and rather use
> javascript to show/hide sections. Yes, I know that you can't expand
> the methods yet. As for the book: It was just something I threw
> together and I hope some of you might want to improve it. But more
> about that later! This is basically just a preview of a preview of the
> new docs; I'll see if I can get it into a commit-able state so you can
> mess with it if you want).
>
> //Magnus Holm
> _______________________________________________
> Camping-list mailing list
> Camping-list at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list
>
>   

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From deveritt at innotts.co.uk  Sun Oct 18 19:33:19 2009
From: deveritt at innotts.co.uk (Dave Everitt)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 00:33:19 +0100
Subject: What should the portal-site contain?
In-Reply-To: <391a49da0910181401r565cab4aqb695c4be6b90f27@mail.gmail.com>
References: <391a49da0910181401r565cab4aqb695c4be6b90f27@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C74D2B17-C0CE-4CFD-AD06-F5DB987F1D77@innotts.co.uk>

This is just what a portal site should be - a one-stop resource and  
authoritative place for announcements. For a start, I *always* have  
to Google the mailing list too(!) - it's just handy to have all the  
links public, and to know there's a single site to remember to visit  
for fresh news.

To comment on specific points:

1. I think the book is a great start (I didn't know of it / couldn't  
find it / remember it existed),

2. the docs and ref do the job with a (primarily links) cleanup

3. in the ref, would be good to have a 'top' or 'menu' link in the  
revealed sections to return to the nav

4. README would be a good index file (happy to help with cleanup) -  
nice to keep the familiar style throughout, and I find the links at  
the top really handy.

> The only thing I miss, is a blog-ish thing where we can post updates.

umm... what better than the blog example itself, expanded, on the new  
site, with admin access shared among active members of the community?  
For more complex material, the wiki might be the best place: http:// 
wiki.github.com/camping/camping ?

What volume of traffic do you get for these?

- Dave

> Here's what Camping currently have:
>
> Source: http://github.com/camping/camping
> Mailing list: rubyforge.org/something/I-always-google
> Bugs: http://github.com/camping/camping/issues
> Wiki: http://wiki.github.com/camping/camping
> Docs: http://camping.rubyforge.org/
> Book: http://camping.rubyforge.org/book.html (not yet, but  
> hopefully soon)
>
> The only thing I miss, is a blog-ish thing where we can post updates.
>
> And also think the README at the docs would be a pretty good  
> index.html if we just clean it up a bit.
>
> Just so you know, I've been messing a bit with the template, so it
> looks a bit different:
> README: http://stuff.judofyr.net/camping-docs/
> Reference: http://stuff.judofyr.net/camping-docs/api.html
> Book: http://stuff.judofyr.net/camping-docs/book.html
>
> (Have a look at the new reference and tell me what you think. The  
> main idea is to bring all the docs into a single page, and rather  
> use javascript to show/hide sections. Yes, I know that you can't  
> expand the methods yet. As for the book: It was just something I  
> threw together and I hope some of you might want to improve it.


From deveritt at innotts.co.uk  Sun Oct 18 19:53:11 2009
From: deveritt at innotts.co.uk (Dave Everitt)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 00:53:11 +0100
Subject: What should the portal-site contain?
In-Reply-To: <391a49da0910181401r565cab4aqb695c4be6b90f27@mail.gmail.com>
References: <391a49da0910181401r565cab4aqb695c4be6b90f27@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <0BE11F85-5659-4E00-976F-F68C9E39D28B@innotts.co.uk>

Magnus

hope you don't mind but for now, I took the liberty of adding most of  
these links to the wiki. BTW I use the mail archive pages at mail- 
archive.com - easier to browse than the standard interface.

Anything you don't want on the wiki right now, please just remove.  
But otherwise, it will be a good test of how handy the 'one-stop'  
thing might be.

For now, that's all for the next few days from me - I have some  
annoying paid work to do this week.

Dave

> Source: http://github.com/camping/camping
> Mailing list: rubyforge.org/something/I-always-google
> Bugs: http://github.com/camping/camping/issues
> Wiki: http://wiki.github.com/camping/camping
> Docs: http://camping.rubyforge.org/
> Book: http://camping.rubyforge.org/book.html (not yet, but  
> hopefully soon)
>
> README: http://stuff.judofyr.net/camping-docs/
> Reference: http://stuff.judofyr.net/camping-docs/api.html
> Book: http://stuff.judofyr.net/camping-docs/book.html


From deveritt at innotts.co.uk  Sun Oct 18 20:03:34 2009
From: deveritt at innotts.co.uk (Dave Everitt)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 01:03:34 +0100
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <4ADB97A3.4050201@monnet-usa.com>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>	<3599629A-EC84-4DE6-B522-99C515D845EF@innotts.co.uk>	<5b67d7010910150242s1f381214xcb8d226cffddc363@mail.gmail.com>	<ECE31767-853C-4E53-AB57-B69FF3061021@innotts.co.uk>	<105591900910150700o262e1903uc7b27b51c671e0a6@mail.gmail.com>	<06DC34A0-BEF7-4974-97D9-4A51C3F25493@innotts.co.uk>	<1d87b3640910150818q278a915dy91de36e7e1c75182@mail.gmail.com>	<391a49da0910171432h6d1ba565u6e3e12ddef33af67@mail.gmail.com>	<38A727BD-2896-4D1B-8F1E-FD24C06476A0@innotts.co.uk>	<4ADB1C76.9000706@monnet-usa.com>
	<A07D5BB4-8A82-417B-8AD9-0CC896DE5B5C@innotts.co.uk>
	<4ADB97A3.4050201@monnet-usa.com>
Message-ID: <A240EA7C-115D-4314-B464-7A2D8A706F3E@innotts.co.uk>

Below: collated results for a Camping domain name, have added my  
prefs and all others. Perhaps we can increment/decrement these scores  
from now on to get a final result ;-)

> [Philippe]: I feel that having the word Ruby in the name would be  
> good for SEO and more likely to incite people not familiar with  
> Camping to click on a link due to the association with Ruby.

agreed. 'rubycamping.com' is available (as are the others, I  
*think*). Also agree with the need to distinguish Camping from RoR,  
so not so sure about 'rubyoncamping.com'? For SEO it's common to have  
 > 1 domain, with a primary one, so (say) 'ruby-camping-framework.com/ 
org/net' might be a good buy to forward to the chosen domain. Since  
this isn't a commercial site, I'd prefer .org/.net with the .com  
variation sitting there quietly - opinions?

> rubycamping.com [9 +1]
> campingframework.com [2 +1]
> rubyoncamping.com [10 -1]
> whywentcamping.com [1 +2] (cute but I wonder if people may skip the  
> site link by thinking it has nothing to do with Ruby)

Dave

PS I have to sleep now.


From blueberry at creativepony.com  Sun Oct 18 21:23:51 2009
From: blueberry at creativepony.com (Jenna Fox)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 12:23:51 +1100
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <A240EA7C-115D-4314-B464-7A2D8A706F3E@innotts.co.uk>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>	<3599629A-EC84-4DE6-B522-99C515D845EF@innotts.co.uk>	<5b67d7010910150242s1f381214xcb8d226cffddc363@mail.gmail.com>	<ECE31767-853C-4E53-AB57-B69FF3061021@innotts.co.uk>	<105591900910150700o262e1903uc7b27b51c671e0a6@mail.gmail.com>	<06DC34A0-BEF7-4974-97D9-4A51C3F25493@innotts.co.uk>	<1d87b3640910150818q278a915dy91de36e7e1c75182@mail.gmail.com>	<391a49da0910171432h6d1ba565u6e3e12ddef33af67@mail.gmail.com>	<38A727BD-2896-4D1B-8F1E-FD24C06476A0@innotts.co.uk>	<4ADB1C76.9000706@monnet-usa.com>
	<A07D5BB4-8A82-417B-8AD9-0CC896DE5B5C@innotts.co.uk>
	<4ADB97A3.4050201@monnet-usa.com>
	<A240EA7C-115D-4314-B464-7A2D8A706F3E@innotts.co.uk>
Message-ID: <05C68823-0BE7-4D19-B7BD-2A69DE9D994F@creativepony.com>

There is the option of whywentcaping.ru, though it is at a cost of  
$29.99 US. I don't know, I really like those sorts of domains that use  
the [cc]TLD as a part of the name, though sadly, http:// 
whywentcampi.ng/ seems to already be taken (though unused... and..  
nigerian..).

I like .net and .org. :)


On 19/10/2009, at 11:03 AM, Dave Everitt wrote:

> Below: collated results for a Camping domain name, have added my  
> prefs and all others. Perhaps we can increment/decrement these  
> scores from now on to get a final result ;-)
>
>> [Philippe]: I feel that having the word Ruby in the name would be  
>> good for SEO and more likely to incite people not familiar with  
>> Camping to click on a link due to the association with Ruby.
>
> agreed. 'rubycamping.com' is available (as are the others, I  
> *think*). Also agree with the need to distinguish Camping from RoR,  
> so not so sure about 'rubyoncamping.com'? For SEO it's common to  
> have > 1 domain, with a primary one, so (say) 'ruby-camping- 
> framework.com/org/net' might be a good buy to forward to the chosen  
> domain. Since this isn't a commercial site, I'd prefer .org/.net  
> with the .com variation sitting there quietly - opinions?
>
>> rubycamping.com [9 +1]
>> campingframework.com [2 +1]
>> rubyoncamping.com [10 -1]
>> whywentcamping.com [1 +2] (cute but I wonder if people may skip the  
>> site link by thinking it has nothing to do with Ruby)
>
> Dave
>
> PS I have to sleep now.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Camping-list mailing list
> Camping-list at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list


From deveritt at innotts.co.uk  Mon Oct 19 08:27:58 2009
From: deveritt at innotts.co.uk (Dave Everitt)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 13:27:58 +0100
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <05C68823-0BE7-4D19-B7BD-2A69DE9D994F@creativepony.com>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>	<3599629A-EC84-4DE6-B522-99C515D845EF@innotts.co.uk>	<5b67d7010910150242s1f381214xcb8d226cffddc363@mail.gmail.com>	<ECE31767-853C-4E53-AB57-B69FF3061021@innotts.co.uk>	<105591900910150700o262e1903uc7b27b51c671e0a6@mail.gmail.com>	<06DC34A0-BEF7-4974-97D9-4A51C3F25493@innotts.co.uk>	<1d87b3640910150818q278a915dy91de36e7e1c75182@mail.gmail.com>	<391a49da0910171432h6d1ba565u6e3e12ddef33af67@mail.gmail.com>	<38A727BD-2896-4D1B-8F1E-FD24C06476A0@innotts.co.uk>	<4ADB1C76.9000706@monnet-usa.com>
	<A07D5BB4-8A82-417B-8AD9-0CC896DE5B5C@innotts.co.uk>
	<4ADB97A3.4050201@monnet-usa.com>
	<A240EA7C-115D-4314-B464-7A2D8A706F3E@innotts.co.uk>
	<05C68823-0BE7-4D19-B7BD-2A69DE9D994F@creativepony.com>
Message-ID: <F2136DAA-A8D9-4DBA-8603-044D9AD25FE1@innotts.co.uk>

nice idea with the .ru = Ruby, although still doubtful that 'why' and  
'went' are good for SEO (BTW you did mean 'camping', not 'caping'  
didn't you :-).

I reckon: 2 domains, one obviously SEO-optimised (containing 'ruby,  
camping, framework'), forwarding to another memorable one we all like  
from the existing list (unless there's a genius new suggestion).

- Dave

> whywentcaping.ru, though it is at a cost of $29.99


From julian.tarkhanov at gmail.com  Mon Oct 19 14:03:25 2009
From: julian.tarkhanov at gmail.com (Julik Tarkhanov)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 20:03:25 +0200
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <F2136DAA-A8D9-4DBA-8603-044D9AD25FE1@innotts.co.uk>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>	<3599629A-EC84-4DE6-B522-99C515D845EF@innotts.co.uk>	<5b67d7010910150242s1f381214xcb8d226cffddc363@mail.gmail.com>	<ECE31767-853C-4E53-AB57-B69FF3061021@innotts.co.uk>	<105591900910150700o262e1903uc7b27b51c671e0a6@mail.gmail.com>	<06DC34A0-BEF7-4974-97D9-4A51C3F25493@innotts.co.uk>	<1d87b3640910150818q278a915dy91de36e7e1c75182@mail.gmail.com>	<391a49da0910171432h6d1ba565u6e3e12ddef33af67@mail.gmail.com>	<38A727BD-2896-4D1B-8F1E-FD24C06476A0@innotts.co.uk>	<4ADB1C76.9000706@monnet-usa.com>
	<A07D5BB4-8A82-417B-8AD9-0CC896DE5B5C@innotts.co.uk>
	<4ADB97A3.4050201@monnet-usa.com>
	<A240EA7C-115D-4314-B464-7A2D8A706F3E@innotts.co.uk>
	<05C68823-0BE7-4D19-B7BD-2A69DE9D994F@creativepony.com>
	<F2136DAA-A8D9-4DBA-8603-044D9AD25FE1@innotts.co.uk>
Message-ID: <8A529EC1-C105-4D7D-8785-4E9CB048D3AA@gmail.com>


On 19 Oct 2009, at 14:27, Dave Everitt wrote:

> nice idea with the .ru = Ruby, although still doubtful that 'why'  
> and 'went' are good for SEO (BTW you did mean 'camping', not  
> 'caping' didn't you :-).


Registering domains in Russia is a bit risky IMO.
-- 
Julik Tarkhanov
me at julik.nl






From jonathan.hickford+camping at gmail.com  Mon Oct 19 14:14:11 2009
From: jonathan.hickford+camping at gmail.com (Jonathan Hickford)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 19:14:11 +0100
Subject: Camping sessions issue (and fix?) when mounting multiple apps
In-Reply-To: <ccf2970a0910191105icff5840o2a913f4f76ff632b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <ccf2970a0910181059h71f72463v81b8ec8acd702e8a@mail.gmail.com>
	<391a49da0910181331j1acc0d7cqc9c497af52228441@mail.gmail.com>
	<ccf2970a0910191105icff5840o2a913f4f76ff632b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ccf2970a0910191114j1a5935beq89d1665955a1beae@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I'd be inclined to agree with the middleware approach too, especially
if it's pre 2.0 release and that change can be made along side other
1.5 -> 2.0 changes

Jon

> On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 9:31 PM, Magnus Holm <judofyr at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Wow, great catch! This is definitely a bug. I guess this should go to
>> GitHub issues, yes.
>>
>> This is actually an issue where Camping and Rack::Session::Cookie fight:
>>
>> At the first request, sessions.state is set in ::Cookie after Camping
>> has done its magic.
>>
>> At the second request, Camping loads @state from @env['rack.state'],
>> the app changes the session, but @cookie['sessions.state'] stays
>> intact. Camping's #to_a then sets the cookies again in the response:
>>
>> ? ? ?@cookies.each do |k, v|
>> ? ? ? ?v = {:value => v, :path => self / "/"} if String === v
>> ? ? ? ?r.set_cookie(k, v)
>> ? ? ?end
>>
>> Which means that it sets a sessions.state-cookie at /sessions/. Then
>> ::Cookies kicks in and figures out that the sessions have changed and
>> sets a new cookie, but this time at /. (This also has the effect that
>> Camping copies all the cookies at / into /sessions/)
>>
>> At the third request, Rack chooses cookies "such that those with more
>> specific Path attributes precede those with less specific", and the
>> cookie at /sessions/ wins.
>>
>> Your fix won't unfornately work because @root is only available inside
>> a request/controller.
>>
>> I think we need to do two things:
>> * Make sure Camping only sets cookies when they've changed.
>> * Figure out a way to set :path to SCRIPT_NAME. If so, this should
>> only be an option, as you might also want to mount two apps and have
>> them share the sessions (aka :path => '/').
>>
>> I'm not quite sure how we should add that option, though. We could
>> switch Camping::Session to be a middleware, but this means all apps
>> will have to change "include Camping::Session" to "use
>> Camping::Session". It's maybe not such a big deal? We should at least
>> do these kind of changes *before* the release of 2.0.
>>
>> Some examples:
>>
>> # Middleware
>> use Camping::Session, :secret => "foo", :shared => true
>>
>> # Subclass
>> include Camping::Session::Shared
>> secret "foo"
>>
>> # New method
>> include Camping::Session
>> secret "foo"
>> shared_cookie!
>>
>> # Merge #secret and #shared_cookie! together
>> include Camping::Session
>> session_options :secret => "foo", :shared => true
>>
>>
>> I think I actually prefer the middleware-version. It's short and
>> concise and can be extended with more options if needed.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>>
>> //Magnus Holm
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 18, 2009 at 19:59, Jonathan Hickford
>> <jonathan.hickford+camping at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Not sure where best to raise this (github issues?) but I'm seeing an
>>> issue with the cookie sessions in camping 2.0 using rack. ?If I mount
>>> an app such as the example blog or the sessions test app at any url
>>> that is not the root session information is lost in some cases. ?Same
>>> thing happens if I use the built in Camping server.
>>>
>>> For example if I mount the blog app using rackup at '/blog' I'm unable
>>> to log in. ?If I mount the sessions test app the information added on
>>> the second page is lost when it reaches page three. ?Looking at the
>>> cookies in the browser I can see two state cookies set with the paths
>>> '/' and '/blog/'.
>>>
>>> I'm guessing this is to do with Rack::Session::Cookie in session.rb,
>>> which will default to use :path => '/' in all cases. ?If I explicitly
>>> add :path => '/blog/' there it starts working as expected. ?Some more
>>> detailed outputs here (this will run from /test)
>>> http://pastebin.com/m6c13a4aa
>>>
>>> Is that me doing something crazy there (I'm not expert!) or is that a
>>> bug? ?If that's an issue I think the below change to session.rb fixes
>>> it, passing in the apps @root into the path Rack's session cookie
>>> middleware. ?I can push that somewhere if we reckon that's a fix?
>>>
>>> - app.use Rack::Session::Cookie, :key => key, :secret => secret
>>> + app.use Rack::Session::Cookie, :key => key, :secret => secret, :path => @root
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Jon
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Camping-list mailing list
>>> Camping-list at rubyforge.org
>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Camping-list mailing list
>> Camping-list at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list
>

From aredridel at nbtsc.org  Mon Oct 19 16:18:26 2009
From: aredridel at nbtsc.org (Aria Stewart)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 14:18:26 -0600
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <F2136DAA-A8D9-4DBA-8603-044D9AD25FE1@innotts.co.uk>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>	<3599629A-EC84-4DE6-B522-99C515D845EF@innotts.co.uk>	<5b67d7010910150242s1f381214xcb8d226cffddc363@mail.gmail.com>	<ECE31767-853C-4E53-AB57-B69FF3061021@innotts.co.uk>	<105591900910150700o262e1903uc7b27b51c671e0a6@mail.gmail.com>	<06DC34A0-BEF7-4974-97D9-4A51C3F25493@innotts.co.uk>	<1d87b3640910150818q278a915dy91de36e7e1c75182@mail.gmail.com>	<391a49da0910171432h6d1ba565u6e3e12ddef33af67@mail.gmail.com>	<38A727BD-2896-4D1B-8F1E-FD24C06476A0@innotts.co.uk>	<4ADB1C76.9000706@monnet-usa.com>
	<A07D5BB4-8A82-417B-8AD9-0CC896DE5B5C@innotts.co.uk>
	<4ADB97A3.4050201@monnet-usa.com>
	<A240EA7C-115D-4314-B464-7A2D8A706F3E@innotts.co.uk>
	<05C68823-0BE7-4D19-B7BD-2A69DE9D994F@creativepony.com>
	<F2136DAA-A8D9-4DBA-8603-044D9AD25FE1@innotts.co.uk>
Message-ID: <71906E28-6DB9-42E8-AE9B-197F21ADF7DE@nbtsc.org>


On Oct 19, 2009, at 6:27 AM, Dave Everitt wrote:

> nice idea with the .ru = Ruby, although still doubtful that 'why'  
> and 'went' are good for SEO (BTW you did mean 'camping', not  
> 'caping' didn't you :-).
>
> I reckon: 2 domains, one obviously SEO-optimised (containing 'ruby,  
> camping, framework'), forwarding to another memorable one we all  
> like from the existing list (unless there's a genius new suggestion).
>

Or better, get good search engine results without gaming the system,  
and just get people to link to it -- go talk it up, blog it up, and  
write some awesome stuff and post it! I'll certainly be linking to it  
from my blog.

Aria Stewart
aredridel at nbtsc.org




From blueberry at creativepony.com  Mon Oct 19 16:44:47 2009
From: blueberry at creativepony.com (Jenna Fox)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 07:44:47 +1100
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <71906E28-6DB9-42E8-AE9B-197F21ADF7DE@nbtsc.org>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>	<3599629A-EC84-4DE6-B522-99C515D845EF@innotts.co.uk>	<5b67d7010910150242s1f381214xcb8d226cffddc363@mail.gmail.com>	<ECE31767-853C-4E53-AB57-B69FF3061021@innotts.co.uk>	<105591900910150700o262e1903uc7b27b51c671e0a6@mail.gmail.com>	<06DC34A0-BEF7-4974-97D9-4A51C3F25493@innotts.co.uk>	<1d87b3640910150818q278a915dy91de36e7e1c75182@mail.gmail.com>	<391a49da0910171432h6d1ba565u6e3e12ddef33af67@mail.gmail.com>	<38A727BD-2896-4D1B-8F1E-FD24C06476A0@innotts.co.uk>	<4ADB1C76.9000706@monnet-usa.com>
	<A07D5BB4-8A82-417B-8AD9-0CC896DE5B5C@innotts.co.uk>
	<4ADB97A3.4050201@monnet-usa.com>
	<A240EA7C-115D-4314-B464-7A2D8A706F3E@innotts.co.uk>
	<05C68823-0BE7-4D19-B7BD-2A69DE9D994F@creativepony.com>
	<F2136DAA-A8D9-4DBA-8603-044D9AD25FE1@innotts.co.uk>
	<71906E28-6DB9-42E8-AE9B-197F21ADF7DE@nbtsc.org>
Message-ID: <4FBB0500-E9EE-4901-A49B-C4B44198EA99@creativepony.com>

Yeah, and besides, camping is not a business, it is an open source  
project of much niftiness. We do not need SEO, it does in fact not  
especially effect us how many people use our framework, except that we  
have this wonderful tight knit little community at the moment which  
would be utterly obliterated by fame. See rubyonrails for details  
about why fame sucks.

?
Jenna


On 20/10/2009, at 7:18 AM, Aria Stewart wrote:

>
> On Oct 19, 2009, at 6:27 AM, Dave Everitt wrote:
>
>> nice idea with the .ru = Ruby, although still doubtful that 'why'  
>> and 'went' are good for SEO (BTW you did mean 'camping', not  
>> 'caping' didn't you :-).
>>
>> I reckon: 2 domains, one obviously SEO-optimised (containing 'ruby,  
>> camping, framework'), forwarding to another memorable one we all  
>> like from the existing list (unless there's a genius new suggestion).
>>
>
> Or better, get good search engine results without gaming the system,  
> and just get people to link to it -- go talk it up, blog it up, and  
> write some awesome stuff and post it! I'll certainly be linking to  
> it from my blog.
>
> Aria Stewart
> aredridel at nbtsc.org
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Camping-list mailing list
> Camping-list at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list


From judofyr at gmail.com  Mon Oct 19 16:52:27 2009
From: judofyr at gmail.com (Magnus Holm)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 22:52:27 +0200
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <4FBB0500-E9EE-4901-A49B-C4B44198EA99@creativepony.com>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com> 
	<38A727BD-2896-4D1B-8F1E-FD24C06476A0@innotts.co.uk>
	<4ADB1C76.9000706@monnet-usa.com> 
	<A07D5BB4-8A82-417B-8AD9-0CC896DE5B5C@innotts.co.uk>
	<4ADB97A3.4050201@monnet-usa.com> 
	<A240EA7C-115D-4314-B464-7A2D8A706F3E@innotts.co.uk>
	<05C68823-0BE7-4D19-B7BD-2A69DE9D994F@creativepony.com> 
	<F2136DAA-A8D9-4DBA-8603-044D9AD25FE1@innotts.co.uk>
	<71906E28-6DB9-42E8-AE9B-197F21ADF7DE@nbtsc.org> 
	<4FBB0500-E9EE-4901-A49B-C4B44198EA99@creativepony.com>
Message-ID: <391a49da0910191352r46660496p2dc137e66adf24ff@mail.gmail.com>

http://imgur.com/7gpQ4.png

//Magnus Holm



On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 22:44, Jenna Fox <blueberry at creativepony.com> wrote:
> Yeah, and besides, camping is not a business, it is an open source project
> of much niftiness. We do not need SEO, it does in fact not especially effect
> us how many people use our framework, except that we have this wonderful
> tight knit little community at the moment which would be utterly obliterated
> by fame. See rubyonrails for details about why fame sucks.
>
> ?
> Jenna
>
>
> On 20/10/2009, at 7:18 AM, Aria Stewart wrote:
>
>>
>> On Oct 19, 2009, at 6:27 AM, Dave Everitt wrote:
>>
>>> nice idea with the .ru = Ruby, although still doubtful that 'why' and
>>> 'went' are good for SEO (BTW you did mean 'camping', not 'caping' didn't you
>>> :-).
>>>
>>> I reckon: 2 domains, one obviously SEO-optimised (containing 'ruby,
>>> camping, framework'), forwarding to another memorable one we all like from
>>> the existing list (unless there's a genius new suggestion).
>>>
>>
>> Or better, get good search engine results without gaming the system, and
>> just get people to link to it -- go talk it up, blog it up, and write some
>> awesome stuff and post it! I'll certainly be linking to it from my blog.
>>
>> Aria Stewart
>> aredridel at nbtsc.org
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Camping-list mailing list
>> Camping-list at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> Camping-list mailing list
> Camping-list at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list
>

From john.beppu at gmail.com  Mon Oct 19 17:06:19 2009
From: john.beppu at gmail.com (John Beppu)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 14:06:19 -0700
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <8A529EC1-C105-4D7D-8785-4E9CB048D3AA@gmail.com>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<391a49da0910171432h6d1ba565u6e3e12ddef33af67@mail.gmail.com>
	<38A727BD-2896-4D1B-8F1E-FD24C06476A0@innotts.co.uk>
	<4ADB1C76.9000706@monnet-usa.com>
	<A07D5BB4-8A82-417B-8AD9-0CC896DE5B5C@innotts.co.uk>
	<4ADB97A3.4050201@monnet-usa.com>
	<A240EA7C-115D-4314-B464-7A2D8A706F3E@innotts.co.uk>
	<05C68823-0BE7-4D19-B7BD-2A69DE9D994F@creativepony.com>
	<F2136DAA-A8D9-4DBA-8603-044D9AD25FE1@innotts.co.uk>
	<8A529EC1-C105-4D7D-8785-4E9CB048D3AA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <21a10fe00910191406r75051cbax5a220665b9e6e8d4@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Julik Tarkhanov <
julian.tarkhanov at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On 19 Oct 2009, at 14:27, Dave Everitt wrote:
>
>  nice idea with the .ru = Ruby, although still doubtful that 'why' and
>> 'went' are good for SEO (BTW you did mean 'camping', not 'caping' didn't you
>> :-).
>>
>
>
> Registering domains in Russia is a bit risky IMO.
>

Out of (morbid) curiosity, what are the risks of registering a .ru domain?

--beppu
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From zimbatm at oree.ch  Mon Oct 19 17:29:10 2009
From: zimbatm at oree.ch (zimbatm)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 23:29:10 +0200
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <F2136DAA-A8D9-4DBA-8603-044D9AD25FE1@innotts.co.uk>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<1d87b3640910150818q278a915dy91de36e7e1c75182@mail.gmail.com>
	<391a49da0910171432h6d1ba565u6e3e12ddef33af67@mail.gmail.com>
	<38A727BD-2896-4D1B-8F1E-FD24C06476A0@innotts.co.uk>
	<4ADB1C76.9000706@monnet-usa.com>
	<A07D5BB4-8A82-417B-8AD9-0CC896DE5B5C@innotts.co.uk>
	<4ADB97A3.4050201@monnet-usa.com>
	<A240EA7C-115D-4314-B464-7A2D8A706F3E@innotts.co.uk>
	<05C68823-0BE7-4D19-B7BD-2A69DE9D994F@creativepony.com>
	<F2136DAA-A8D9-4DBA-8603-044D9AD25FE1@innotts.co.uk>
Message-ID: <e3caf1460910191429ld50308er68e76630fddfa56f@mail.gmail.com>

In any case, I just secured whywentcamping.com. For now it redirects
to camping.rubyforge.com

From cdcarter at gmail.com  Mon Oct 19 17:30:59 2009
From: cdcarter at gmail.com (Christian Carter)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 17:30:59 -0400
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <21a10fe00910191406r75051cbax5a220665b9e6e8d4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com> 
	<38A727BD-2896-4D1B-8F1E-FD24C06476A0@innotts.co.uk>
	<4ADB1C76.9000706@monnet-usa.com> 
	<A07D5BB4-8A82-417B-8AD9-0CC896DE5B5C@innotts.co.uk>
	<4ADB97A3.4050201@monnet-usa.com> 
	<A240EA7C-115D-4314-B464-7A2D8A706F3E@innotts.co.uk>
	<05C68823-0BE7-4D19-B7BD-2A69DE9D994F@creativepony.com> 
	<F2136DAA-A8D9-4DBA-8603-044D9AD25FE1@innotts.co.uk>
	<8A529EC1-C105-4D7D-8785-4E9CB048D3AA@gmail.com> 
	<21a10fe00910191406r75051cbax5a220665b9e6e8d4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <86987bdf0910191430u41298a8mb071026ab781d2d1@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 5:06 PM, John Beppu <john.beppu at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 11:03 AM, Julik Tarkhanov <
> julian.tarkhanov at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 19 Oct 2009, at 14:27, Dave Everitt wrote:
>>
>>  nice idea with the .ru = Ruby, although still doubtful that 'why' and
>>> 'went' are good for SEO (BTW you did mean 'camping', not 'caping' didn't you
>>> :-).
>>>
>>
>>
>> Registering domains in Russia is a bit risky IMO.
>>
>
> Out of (morbid) curiosity, what are the risks of registering a .ru domain?
>
> --beppu
>
> A lot of spam filters automatically stick .ru domains as spam, and search
engines tend to avoid .ru as well.

Christian Carter
612.327.5292
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From zimbatm at oree.ch  Mon Oct 19 17:32:05 2009
From: zimbatm at oree.ch (zimbatm)
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 23:32:05 +0200
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <e3caf1460910191429ld50308er68e76630fddfa56f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<391a49da0910171432h6d1ba565u6e3e12ddef33af67@mail.gmail.com>
	<38A727BD-2896-4D1B-8F1E-FD24C06476A0@innotts.co.uk>
	<4ADB1C76.9000706@monnet-usa.com>
	<A07D5BB4-8A82-417B-8AD9-0CC896DE5B5C@innotts.co.uk>
	<4ADB97A3.4050201@monnet-usa.com>
	<A240EA7C-115D-4314-B464-7A2D8A706F3E@innotts.co.uk>
	<05C68823-0BE7-4D19-B7BD-2A69DE9D994F@creativepony.com>
	<F2136DAA-A8D9-4DBA-8603-044D9AD25FE1@innotts.co.uk>
	<e3caf1460910191429ld50308er68e76630fddfa56f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e3caf1460910191432x1c774f68q27be93c42b04eba@mail.gmail.com>

Regarding SEO, isn't it enough to have some links from the ruby
community pointing to the camping homepage to have it on top-10 of
"ruby camping" search results ?

From blueberry at creativepony.com  Mon Oct 19 21:03:35 2009
From: blueberry at creativepony.com (Jenna Fox)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 12:03:35 +1100
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <e3caf1460910191429ld50308er68e76630fddfa56f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<1d87b3640910150818q278a915dy91de36e7e1c75182@mail.gmail.com>
	<391a49da0910171432h6d1ba565u6e3e12ddef33af67@mail.gmail.com>
	<38A727BD-2896-4D1B-8F1E-FD24C06476A0@innotts.co.uk>
	<4ADB1C76.9000706@monnet-usa.com>
	<A07D5BB4-8A82-417B-8AD9-0CC896DE5B5C@innotts.co.uk>
	<4ADB97A3.4050201@monnet-usa.com>
	<A240EA7C-115D-4314-B464-7A2D8A706F3E@innotts.co.uk>
	<05C68823-0BE7-4D19-B7BD-2A69DE9D994F@creativepony.com>
	<F2136DAA-A8D9-4DBA-8603-044D9AD25FE1@innotts.co.uk>
	<e3caf1460910191429ld50308er68e76630fddfa56f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FA492803-FCD7-47F4-84EA-2E4EC9723719@creativepony.com>

Excellent news with the domain. :)

I don't understand why we should care about search positioning. The  
site exists to give us users information. How do these sorts of  
frameworks gain popularity? word of mouth. Our website doesn't need to  
sell anything because more users is simply a burden from an  
administrative perspective. What motivation is there to be widely  
popular? Does one even exist or are people just assuming it's the  
thing we're supposed to do?


On 20/10/2009, at 8:29 AM, zimbatm wrote:

> In any case, I just secured whywentcamping.com. For now it redirects
> to camping.rubyforge.com
> _______________________________________________
> Camping-list mailing list
> Camping-list at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list

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From deveritt at innotts.co.uk  Tue Oct 20 04:50:07 2009
From: deveritt at innotts.co.uk (Dave Everitt)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:50:07 +0100
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <71906E28-6DB9-42E8-AE9B-197F21ADF7DE@nbtsc.org>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>	<3599629A-EC84-4DE6-B522-99C515D845EF@innotts.co.uk>	<5b67d7010910150242s1f381214xcb8d226cffddc363@mail.gmail.com>	<ECE31767-853C-4E53-AB57-B69FF3061021@innotts.co.uk>	<105591900910150700o262e1903uc7b27b51c671e0a6@mail.gmail.com>	<06DC34A0-BEF7-4974-97D9-4A51C3F25493@innotts.co.uk>	<1d87b3640910150818q278a915dy91de36e7e1c75182@mail.gmail.com>	<391a49da0910171432h6d1ba565u6e3e12ddef33af67@mail.gmail.com>	<38A727BD-2896-4D1B-8F1E-FD24C06476A0@innotts.co.uk>	<4ADB1C76.9000706@monnet-usa.com>
	<A07D5BB4-8A82-417B-8AD9-0CC896DE5B5C@innotts.co.uk>
	<4ADB97A3.4050201@monnet-usa.com>
	<A240EA7C-115D-4314-B464-7A2D8A706F3E@innotts.co.uk>
	<05C68823-0BE7-4D19-B7BD-2A69DE9D994F@creativepony.com>
	<F2136DAA-A8D9-4DBA-8603-044D9AD25FE1@innotts.co.uk>
	<71906E28-6DB9-42E8-AE9B-197F21ADF7DE@nbtsc.org>
Message-ID: <28353286-D2C2-4088-981A-C9F18E26E6E8@innotts.co.uk>

okay - which of the proposed domains works best for you? - Dave

> Or better, get good search engine results without gaming the  
> system, and just get people to link to it -- go talk it up, blog it  
> up, and write some awesome stuff and post it! I'll certainly be  
> linking to it from my blog.


From deveritt at innotts.co.uk  Tue Oct 20 04:59:34 2009
From: deveritt at innotts.co.uk (Dave Everitt)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:59:34 +0100
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <4FBB0500-E9EE-4901-A49B-C4B44198EA99@creativepony.com>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>	<3599629A-EC84-4DE6-B522-99C515D845EF@innotts.co.uk>	<5b67d7010910150242s1f381214xcb8d226cffddc363@mail.gmail.com>	<ECE31767-853C-4E53-AB57-B69FF3061021@innotts.co.uk>	<105591900910150700o262e1903uc7b27b51c671e0a6@mail.gmail.com>	<06DC34A0-BEF7-4974-97D9-4A51C3F25493@innotts.co.uk>	<1d87b3640910150818q278a915dy91de36e7e1c75182@mail.gmail.com>	<391a49da0910171432h6d1ba565u6e3e12ddef33af67@mail.gmail.com>	<38A727BD-2896-4D1B-8F1E-FD24C06476A0@innotts.co.uk>	<4ADB1C76.9000706@monnet-usa.com>
	<A07D5BB4-8A82-417B-8AD9-0CC896DE5B5C@innotts.co.uk>
	<4ADB97A3.4050201@monnet-usa.com>
	<A240EA7C-115D-4314-B464-7A2D8A706F3E@innotts.co.uk>
	<05C68823-0BE7-4D19-B7BD-2A69DE9D994F@creativepony.com>
	<F2136DAA-A8D9-4DBA-8603-044D9AD25FE1@innotts.co.uk>
	<71906E28-6DB9-42E8-AE9B-197F21ADF7DE@nbtsc.org>
	<4FBB0500-E9EE-4901-A49B-C4B44198EA99@creativepony.com>
Message-ID: <58CBCF30-9BBC-4C4F-8B18-74DCD179149A@innotts.co.uk>

> we have this wonderful tight knit little community at the moment  
> which would be utterly obliterated by fame. See rubyonrails for  
> details about why fame sucks.


LOL! Good point!

Magnus - great cartoon! More!!

Okay, we don't need SEO :-)

> What motivation is there to be widely popular?


> In any case, I just secured whywentcamping.com. For now it  
> redirects to camping.rubyforge.com


That's the decision made, then - good.

- Dave


From mkbunday at stanford.edu  Tue Oct 20 10:06:15 2009
From: mkbunday at stanford.edu (Matt Bunday)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:06:15 -0500
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <58CBCF30-9BBC-4C4F-8B18-74DCD179149A@innotts.co.uk>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<4ADB1C76.9000706@monnet-usa.com>
	<A07D5BB4-8A82-417B-8AD9-0CC896DE5B5C@innotts.co.uk>
	<4ADB97A3.4050201@monnet-usa.com>
	<A240EA7C-115D-4314-B464-7A2D8A706F3E@innotts.co.uk>
	<05C68823-0BE7-4D19-B7BD-2A69DE9D994F@creativepony.com>
	<F2136DAA-A8D9-4DBA-8603-044D9AD25FE1@innotts.co.uk>
	<71906E28-6DB9-42E8-AE9B-197F21ADF7DE@nbtsc.org>
	<4FBB0500-E9EE-4901-A49B-C4B44198EA99@creativepony.com>
	<58CBCF30-9BBC-4C4F-8B18-74DCD179149A@innotts.co.uk>
Message-ID: <105591900910200706r2429135apf9ca9e3c4d94c345@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 3:59 AM, Dave Everitt <deveritt at innotts.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Okay, we don't need SEO :-)

Regardless, it's not my impression that the domain name plays much
role at all in Google's algorithm. After all, domain squatters nearly
never show up on the first page of results, despite that most of the
squatted domains are seen as valuable keyword wise. To get good
pagerank we just need inbound links, is all.

-- 
Matthew Bunday

From deveritt at innotts.co.uk  Tue Oct 20 10:45:54 2009
From: deveritt at innotts.co.uk (Dave Everitt)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:45:54 +0100
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <105591900910200706r2429135apf9ca9e3c4d94c345@mail.gmail.com>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<4ADB1C76.9000706@monnet-usa.com>
	<A07D5BB4-8A82-417B-8AD9-0CC896DE5B5C@innotts.co.uk>
	<4ADB97A3.4050201@monnet-usa.com>
	<A240EA7C-115D-4314-B464-7A2D8A706F3E@innotts.co.uk>
	<05C68823-0BE7-4D19-B7BD-2A69DE9D994F@creativepony.com>
	<F2136DAA-A8D9-4DBA-8603-044D9AD25FE1@innotts.co.uk>
	<71906E28-6DB9-42E8-AE9B-197F21ADF7DE@nbtsc.org>
	<4FBB0500-E9EE-4901-A49B-C4B44198EA99@creativepony.com>
	<58CBCF30-9BBC-4C4F-8B18-74DCD179149A@innotts.co.uk>
	<105591900910200706r2429135apf9ca9e3c4d94c345@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CD354AEC-44CC-45D8-8F50-365BA09DD8D3@innotts.co.uk>

>> Okay, we don't need SEO :-)
>
> Regardless, it's not my impression that the domain name plays much  
> role at all in Google's algorithm. After all, domain squatters  
> nearly never show up on the first page of results, despite that  
> most of the squatted domains are seen as valuable keyword wise. To  
> get good pagerank we just need inbound links, is all.

keywords in the domain do help - I'm pretty sure spam is filtered by  
other means too - like hiding text, too much repetition, 'spam-like'  
terms. As well as inbound links (which I reckon won't be a problem),  
in my experience the best plan is to have well-constructed and  
machine-readable semantic markup with genuine  and regularly-updated  
content.

Since we now have a domain, maybe the topic's over?

Webmastering & hosting, anyone? I'm willing to pitch in.

Dave


From mkbunday at stanford.edu  Tue Oct 20 13:27:27 2009
From: mkbunday at stanford.edu (Matt Bunday)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 12:27:27 -0500
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <CD354AEC-44CC-45D8-8F50-365BA09DD8D3@innotts.co.uk>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<4ADB97A3.4050201@monnet-usa.com>
	<A240EA7C-115D-4314-B464-7A2D8A706F3E@innotts.co.uk>
	<05C68823-0BE7-4D19-B7BD-2A69DE9D994F@creativepony.com>
	<F2136DAA-A8D9-4DBA-8603-044D9AD25FE1@innotts.co.uk>
	<71906E28-6DB9-42E8-AE9B-197F21ADF7DE@nbtsc.org>
	<4FBB0500-E9EE-4901-A49B-C4B44198EA99@creativepony.com>
	<58CBCF30-9BBC-4C4F-8B18-74DCD179149A@innotts.co.uk>
	<105591900910200706r2429135apf9ca9e3c4d94c345@mail.gmail.com>
	<CD354AEC-44CC-45D8-8F50-365BA09DD8D3@innotts.co.uk>
Message-ID: <105591900910201027xd843456ya50e518dceac620d@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Dave Everitt <deveritt at innotts.co.uk> wrote:
> keywords in the domain do help - I'm pretty sure spam is filtered by other
> means too - like hiding text, too much repetition, 'spam-like' terms. As
> well as inbound links (which I reckon won't be a problem), in my experience
> the best plan is to have well-constructed and machine-readable semantic
> markup with genuine ?and regularly-updated content.
>
> Since we now have a domain, maybe the topic's over?
>
> Webmastering & hosting, anyone? I'm willing to pitch in.

Well, since I've already volunteered to webmaster, I could throw in an
idle VPS too. If someone else wants to host, that would be even
better, because I do rather like having a staging server.

-- 
Matthew Bunday

From deveritt at innotts.co.uk  Tue Oct 20 17:08:24 2009
From: deveritt at innotts.co.uk (Dave Everitt)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:08:24 +0100
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <105591900910201027xd843456ya50e518dceac620d@mail.gmail.com>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<4ADB97A3.4050201@monnet-usa.com>
	<A240EA7C-115D-4314-B464-7A2D8A706F3E@innotts.co.uk>
	<05C68823-0BE7-4D19-B7BD-2A69DE9D994F@creativepony.com>
	<F2136DAA-A8D9-4DBA-8603-044D9AD25FE1@innotts.co.uk>
	<71906E28-6DB9-42E8-AE9B-197F21ADF7DE@nbtsc.org>
	<4FBB0500-E9EE-4901-A49B-C4B44198EA99@creativepony.com>
	<58CBCF30-9BBC-4C4F-8B18-74DCD179149A@innotts.co.uk>
	<105591900910200706r2429135apf9ca9e3c4d94c345@mail.gmail.com>
	<CD354AEC-44CC-45D8-8F50-365BA09DD8D3@innotts.co.uk>
	<105591900910201027xd843456ya50e518dceac620d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CDB434A7-5B0A-427B-BFE2-AB0617A3EB73@innotts.co.uk>

My partnership has VPS Dallas (Ubuntu) and London (Debian) servers  
from Rimuhosting. We're about to replace the former with a more  
updated system, so that could be an option, depending on where the  
most visitors are likely to come from. The London server has faster  
access for UK/European users - Dave

>> Webmastering & hosting, anyone? I'm willing to pitch in.
>
> Well, since I've already volunteered to webmaster, I could throw in  
> an idle VPS too. If someone else wants to host, that would be even  
> better, because I do rather like having a staging server.


From blueberry at creativepony.com  Tue Oct 20 17:38:28 2009
From: blueberry at creativepony.com (Jenna Fox)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 08:38:28 +1100
Subject: What now?
In-Reply-To: <CDB434A7-5B0A-427B-BFE2-AB0617A3EB73@innotts.co.uk>
References: <391a49da0908071238g24602d56wf52c3371dae950bd@mail.gmail.com>
	<4ADB97A3.4050201@monnet-usa.com>
	<A240EA7C-115D-4314-B464-7A2D8A706F3E@innotts.co.uk>
	<05C68823-0BE7-4D19-B7BD-2A69DE9D994F@creativepony.com>
	<F2136DAA-A8D9-4DBA-8603-044D9AD25FE1@innotts.co.uk>
	<71906E28-6DB9-42E8-AE9B-197F21ADF7DE@nbtsc.org>
	<4FBB0500-E9EE-4901-A49B-C4B44198EA99@creativepony.com>
	<58CBCF30-9BBC-4C4F-8B18-74DCD179149A@innotts.co.uk>
	<105591900910200706r2429135apf9ca9e3c4d94c345@mail.gmail.com>
	<CD354AEC-44CC-45D8-8F50-365BA09DD8D3@innotts.co.uk>
	<105591900910201027xd843456ya50e518dceac620d@mail.gmail.com>
	<CDB434A7-5B0A-427B-BFE2-AB0617A3EB73@innotts.co.uk>
Message-ID: <4DAE1159-4A8F-40E9-AB3A-A47BE9DE85AA@creativepony.com>

I really doubt we need something of that scale. A shared hosting  
account with passenger support would be fine and dandy for now.

On 21/10/2009, at 8:08 AM, Dave Everitt wrote:

> My partnership has VPS Dallas (Ubuntu) and London (Debian) servers  
> from Rimuhosting. We're about to replace the former with a more  
> updated system, so that could be an option, depending on where the  
> most visitors are likely to come from. The London server has faster  
> access for UK/European users - Dave
>
>>> Webmastering & hosting, anyone? I'm willing to pitch in.
>>
>> Well, since I've already volunteered to webmaster, I could throw in  
>> an idle VPS too. If someone else wants to host, that would be even  
>> better, because I do rather like having a staging server.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Camping-list mailing list
> Camping-list at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/camping-list


From deveritt at innotts.co.uk  Wed Oct 21 09:14:15 2009
From: deveritt at innotts.co.uk (Dave Everitt)
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 14:14:15 +0100
Subject: What should the portal-site contain?
In-Reply-To: <0BE11F85-5659-4E00-976F-F68C9E39D28B@innotts.co.uk>
References: <391a49da0910181401r565cab4aqb695c4be6b90f27@mail.gmail.com>
	<0BE11F85-5659-4E00-976F-F68C9E39D28B@innotts.co.uk>
Message-ID: <A0A302FB-A8F2-4BB3-B20E-C4332E635B9E@innotts.co.uk>

Magnus

for quick fixing (since these links are on the wiki), thought you'd  
like to know where the bad links are in your current README 'Camping,  
the Reference' at: http://stuff.judofyr.net/camping-docs/api.html

'code' (top right menu):
   - http://github.com/why/camping
   + http://github.com/camping/camping
'The Camping Book'
   - file://book/01_introduction.html#toc
   + http://stuff.judofyr.net/camping-docs/book.html
Module Camping::Session > 'env'
   - http://'rack.session'
   + ?
Every link that goes to:
   - http://stuff.judofyr.net/api.html
   + ?

If this is at all useful, will scan the other sections too.

Dave E.

> Magnus
>
> hope you don't mind but for now, I took the liberty of adding most  
> of these links to the wiki. BTW I use the mail archive pages at  
> mail-archive.com - easier to browse than the standard interface.
>
> Dave
>
>> Source: http://github.com/camping/camping
>> Mailing list: rubyforge.org/something/I-always-google
>> Bugs: http://github.com/camping/camping/issues
>> Wiki: http://wiki.github.com/camping/camping
>> Docs: http://camping.rubyforge.org/
>> Book: http://camping.rubyforge.org/book.html (not yet, but  
>> hopefully soon)
>>
>> README: http://stuff.judofyr.net/camping-docs/
>> Reference: http://stuff.judofyr.net/camping-docs/api.html
>> Book: http://stuff.judofyr.net/camping-docs/book.html