From natebkirby at yahoo.com  Thu May  1 11:36:13 2008
From: natebkirby at yahoo.com (Nate Kirby)
Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 10:36:13 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] Calendar, June Meeting Ideas.
In-Reply-To: <746150.43723.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <746150.43723.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4819E36D.3050500@yahoo.com>

All,

So it looks like people would appreciate (attend) a session on June 2nd 
where some time was spent talking upon experiences discovered using 
BDD/Selenium with Rails.  Ryan is willing to act as a question answer,  
and I might be able to present something useful on my own. 

How much time should I shoot for?

I know chirb is into technical details, but the important things we 
found are more about high level strategy than technical details although 
I can add details for those uncomfortable with strategies.

The outline would be:

What is BDD?
How does RSpec work (practical usage not internal)? 
How does Selenium work (with rails - once again practical usage not 
internals)?
What is story runner? (I know David covered this in Oct last year - so 
this will be cursory)
    Usage
What did we find about BDD?
    Duplication of effort
    Mocks v DB  
What did we find about Story Runner?
    Combine with Selenium?
    Engineers response
    Combinational complexity
What did we find about Selenium?

Then the final Unexpected result.
*Ryan can ask me question (actually anyone can - but I reserve the right 
to say "I don't know") as the session proceeds?

How does this sound?

Blessings,
Nate

Nick wrote:
> +1 for both too.
>
> -Nick
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Eric Smith <paytonrules at gmail.com>
> To: Chirb discussion list <chicagogroup-members-list at rubyforge.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 8:43:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [Chirb] Calendar, June Meeting Ideas.
>
> +1 for 2D gaming in Ruby.  Actually +1 for both.  
>
> Eric Smith
>
> On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Josh Cronemeyer 
> <jcroneme at thoughtworks.com <mailto:jcroneme at thoughtworks.com>> wrote:
>
>
>     Ok!  Now we have options!
>
>     Up for grabs - June 2nd meeting -
>
>     Volunteered talks:
>     -BDD tools best practices with Nate Kirby and Ryan Platte
>     -2D gaming in ruby with some guy
>
>     I'm happy to save mine for the July meeting which according to the
>     webpage is a lightning talk session.  Or whatever.  Group, if you
>     have opinions, now is the time to share them otherwise the usual
>     noisy minority will make the decisions for you :)
>
>     Josh Cronemeyer
>
>
>     *Nate Kirby <natebkirby at yahoo.com <mailto:natebkirby at yahoo.com>>*
>     Sent by: chicagogroup-members-list-bounces at rubyforge.org
>     <mailto:chicagogroup-members-list-bounces at rubyforge.org>
>
>     04/23/08 05:17 PM
>
>     Please respond to
>     Chirb discussion list <chicagogroup-members-list at rubyforge.org
>     <mailto:chicagogroup-members-list at rubyforge.org>>
>
>
>     	
>     To
>     	Chirb discussion list <chicagogroup-members-list at rubyforge.org
>     <mailto:chicagogroup-members-list at rubyforge.org>>
>     cc
>     	
>     Subject
>     	Re: [Chirb] Calendar, June Meeting Ideas.
>
>
>
>     	
>
>
>
>
>
>     Josh,
>
>     If you want me to present I can.  What I have might not take up a
>     whole meeting though.  Ryan's idea might be helpful.  Let's see if
>     anyone else chimes in about their experiences.
>
>     I will be in town on June 2.
>
>     Blessings,
>     Nate
>
>
>     Nate,
>
>     Sounds like it would be a good topic.  Just to keep the focus of
>     my email though, I'm trying to line up a session for the June
>     meeting.  Are you offering to talk about this June 2nd?
>
>     Ryan Platte wrote:
>     Nate, it'd be interesting to hear the story you mentioned. I'd
>     love to hear about what you learned.  
>
>     Idea: if you're uncomfortable making a big deal of it, I'd be
>     happy to present with you, asking questions, kind of like a
>     2-person panel format. But again, I'd be interested in learning
>     more no matter how you'd want to present it.
>
>     On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Nate Kirby
>     <_natebkirby at yahoo.com_ <mailto:natebkirby at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>     Josh,
>
>     Those sound interesting, but if anyone has been using BDD, tools
>     such as RSpec, Story Runner, Selenium, Cubic Test or any other
>     quality improvement tools, it would be great to have a session
>     where people talk about what they have found to be best practices.
>
>     We tried integrating RSpec Story Runner and Selenium.  The
>     integration was easy, but it created a workflow nightmare that we
>     had to back out of.  If others have stories about there experience
>     it seems like such a session might be very valuable.
>
>     -- 
>     Ryan Platte
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     _ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org_
>     <mailto:ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org>
>     _http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list________________________________________________
>
>
>     ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
>     <mailto:ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org>
>     http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
>     <mailto:ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org>
>     http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
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From stcorbett at gmail.com  Thu May  1 11:55:15 2008
From: stcorbett at gmail.com (Sean Corbett)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 10:55:15 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] Calendar, June Meeting Ideas.
In-Reply-To: <4819E36D.3050500@yahoo.com>
References: <746150.43723.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4819E36D.3050500@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b7391af90805010855w1c965958q66deec036c8c7a8f@mail.gmail.com>

That sounds pretty awesome.  +=1

On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Nate Kirby <natebkirby at yahoo.com> wrote:

>  All,
>
> So it looks like people would appreciate (attend) a session on June 2nd
> where some time was spent talking upon experiences discovered using
> BDD/Selenium with Rails.  Ryan is willing to act as a question answer,  and
> I might be able to present something useful on my own.
>
> How much time should I shoot for?
>
> I know chirb is into technical details, but the important things we found
> are more about high level strategy than technical details although I can add
> details for those uncomfortable with strategies.
>
> The outline would be:
>
> What is BDD?
> How does RSpec work (practical usage not internal)?
> How does Selenium work (with rails - once again practical usage not
> internals)?
> What is story runner? (I know David covered this in Oct last year - so
> this will be cursory)
>     Usage
> What did we find about BDD?
>     Duplication of effort
>     Mocks v DB
> What did we find about Story Runner?
>     Combine with Selenium?
>     Engineers response
>     Combinational complexity
> What did we find about Selenium?
>
> Then the final Unexpected result.
> *Ryan can ask me question (actually anyone can - but I reserve the right
> to say "I don't know") as the session proceeds?
>
> How does this sound?
>
> Blessings,
> Nate
>
> Nick wrote:
>
>  +1 for both too.
>
> -Nick
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Eric Smith <paytonrules at gmail.com> <paytonrules at gmail.com>
> To: Chirb discussion list <chicagogroup-members-list at rubyforge.org><chicagogroup-members-list at rubyforge.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 8:43:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [Chirb] Calendar, June Meeting Ideas.
>
> +1 for 2D gaming in Ruby.  Actually +1 for both.
>  Eric Smith
>
> On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Josh Cronemeyer <
> jcroneme at thoughtworks.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Ok!  Now we have options!
> >
> > Up for grabs - June 2nd meeting -
> >
> > Volunteered talks:
> > -BDD tools best practices with Nate Kirby and Ryan Platte
> > -2D gaming in ruby with some guy
> >
> > I'm happy to save mine for the July meeting which according to the
> > webpage is a lightning talk session.  Or whatever.  Group, if you have
> > opinions, now is the time to share them otherwise the usual noisy minority
> > will make the decisions for you :)
> >
> > Josh Cronemeyer
> >
> >
> >   *Nate Kirby <natebkirby at yahoo.com>*
> >  Sent by: chicagogroup-members-list-bounces at rubyforge.org
> >
> > 04/23/08 05:17 PM
> >    Please respond to
> > Chirb discussion list <chicagogroup-members-list at rubyforge.org>
> >
> >     To
> >  Chirb discussion list <chicagogroup-members-list at rubyforge.org>   cc
> >
> >   Subject
> >  Re: [Chirb] Calendar, June Meeting Ideas.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Josh,
> >
> > If you want me to present I can.  What I have might not take up a whole
> > meeting though.  Ryan's idea might be helpful.  Let's see if anyone else
> > chimes in about their experiences.
> >
> > I will be in town on June 2.
> >
> > Blessings,
> > Nate
> >
> >
> > Nate,
> >
> > Sounds like it would be a good topic.  Just to keep the focus of my
> > email though, I'm trying to line up a session for the June meeting.  Are you
> > offering to talk about this June 2nd?
> >
> > Ryan Platte wrote:
> > Nate, it'd be interesting to hear the story you mentioned. I'd love to
> > hear about what you learned.
> >
> > Idea: if you're uncomfortable making a big deal of it, I'd be happy to
> > present with you, asking questions, kind of like a 2-person panel format.
> > But again, I'd be interested in learning more no matter how you'd want to
> > present it.
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Nate Kirby <*natebkirby at yahoo.com*<natebkirby at yahoo.com>>
> > wrote:
> > Josh,
> >
> > Those sound interesting, but if anyone has been using BDD, tools such as
> > RSpec, Story Runner, Selenium, Cubic Test or any other quality improvement
> > tools, it would be great to have a session where people talk about what they
> > have found to be best practices.
> >
> > We tried integrating RSpec Story Runner and Selenium.  The integration
> > was easy, but it created a workflow nightmare that we had to back out of.
> >  If others have stories about there experience it seems like such a session
> > might be very valuable.
> >
> > --
> > Ryan Platte
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > *ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org*<ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org>
> >  *http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list*<http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list>_______________________________________________
> >
> > ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
> >   http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
> > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
> >
>
>
>  ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.orghttp://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
>
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From dchelimsky at gmail.com  Thu May  1 12:05:36 2008
From: dchelimsky at gmail.com (David Chelimsky)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 11:05:36 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] Calendar, June Meeting Ideas.
In-Reply-To: <b7391af90805010855w1c965958q66deec036c8c7a8f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <746150.43723.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4819E36D.3050500@yahoo.com>
	<b7391af90805010855w1c965958q66deec036c8c7a8f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3A4AC36A-7D8A-42B4-BF4B-F88F10B66BBA@gmail.com>

> On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 10:36 AM, Nate Kirby <natebkirby at yahoo.com>  
> wrote:
> All,
>
> So it looks like people would appreciate (attend) a session on June  
> 2nd where some time was spent talking upon experiences discovered  
> using BDD/Selenium with Rails.  Ryan is willing to act as a question  
> answer,  and I might be able to present something useful on my own.
>
> How much time should I shoot for?
>
> I know chirb is into technical details, but the important things we  
> found are more about high level strategy than technical details  
> although I can add details for those uncomfortable with strategies.
>
> The outline would be:
>
> What is BDD?
> How does RSpec work (practical usage not internal)?
> How does Selenium work (with rails - once again practical usage not  
> internals)?
> What is story runner? (I know David covered this in Oct last year -  
> so this will be cursory)
>     Usage
> What did we find about BDD?
>     Duplication of effort
>     Mocks v DB
> What did we find about Story Runner?
>     Combine with Selenium?
>     Engineers response
>     Combinational complexity
> What did we find about Selenium?
>
> Then the final Unexpected result.
> *Ryan can ask me question (actually anyone can - but I reserve the  
> right to say "I don't know") as the session proceeds?
>
> How does this sound?

I'd show up for that one!

What date are we talking about? Can we avoid June 2 as some folks  
(like me) are returning from Portland and won't be back in time to  
make it?

Cheers,
David
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From natebkirby at yahoo.com  Thu May  1 12:45:01 2008
From: natebkirby at yahoo.com (Nate Kirby)
Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 11:45:01 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] Calendar, June Meeting Ideas.
In-Reply-To: <3A4AC36A-7D8A-42B4-BF4B-F88F10B66BBA@gmail.com>
References: <746150.43723.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>	<4819E36D.3050500@yahoo.com>	<b7391af90805010855w1c965958q66deec036c8c7a8f@mail.gmail.com>
	<3A4AC36A-7D8A-42B4-BF4B-F88F10B66BBA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4819F38D.9070409@yahoo.com>

Josh,

Can that date shift?

Nate

David Chelimsky wrote:
>
> I'd show up for that one!
>
> What date are we talking about? Can we avoid June 2 as some folks 
> (like me) are returning from Portland and won't be back in time to 
> make it?
>
> Cheers,
> David
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
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From andy at obtiva.com  Thu May  1 13:40:41 2008
From: andy at obtiva.com (Andy Maleh)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 12:40:41 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] Calendar, June Meeting Ideas.
In-Reply-To: <4819F38D.9070409@yahoo.com>
References: <746150.43723.qm@web82802.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<4819E36D.3050500@yahoo.com>
	<b7391af90805010855w1c965958q66deec036c8c7a8f@mail.gmail.com>
	<3A4AC36A-7D8A-42B4-BF4B-F88F10B66BBA@gmail.com>
	<4819F38D.9070409@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <620ca2c40805011040v6709ec1fgd319bb60e5d1ad9a@mail.gmail.com>

To my knowledge, CHIRB meetings just happen on Mondays by default, but they
can be shifted when needed as Nick and I once did with our talk
<http://www.chirb.org/event/show/24>(moved it to Thursday.)

Andy

On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 11:45 AM, Nate Kirby <natebkirby at yahoo.com> wrote:

>  Josh,
>
> Can that date shift?
>
> Nate
>
> David Chelimsky wrote:
>
>
>  I'd show up for that one!
>
>  What date are we talking about? Can we avoid June 2 as some folks (like
> me) are returning from Portland and won't be back in time to make it?
>
>  Cheers,
> David
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.orghttp://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
>



-- 
//Obtiva - Agility Applied. Software Delivered.
www.obtiva.com
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From jcroneme at thoughtworks.com  Thu May  1 14:52:22 2008
From: jcroneme at thoughtworks.com (Josh Cronemeyer)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 13:52:22 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] Calendar, June Meeting Ideas.
In-Reply-To: <620ca2c40805011040v6709ec1fgd319bb60e5d1ad9a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <OFCBB25782.09DFCF34-ON8625743C.006787CF-8625743C.0067AC16@thoughtworks.com>

That's right.  Monday is the convention, but we deviate from that as 
necessary.  Does anyone have a suggestion for a different day?  Do we skip 
a week and go for the 9th?

Josh Cronemeyer



"Andy Maleh" <andy at obtiva.com> 
Sent by: chicagogroup-members-list-bounces at rubyforge.org
05/01/08 12:40 PM
Please respond to
Chirb discussion list <chicagogroup-members-list at rubyforge.org>


To
"Chirb discussion list" <chicagogroup-members-list at rubyforge.org>
cc

Subject
Re: [Chirb] Calendar, June Meeting Ideas.






To my knowledge, CHIRB meetings just happen on Mondays by default, but 
they can be shifted when needed as Nick and I once did with our talk 
(moved it to Thursday.)

Andy

On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 11:45 AM, Nate Kirby <natebkirby at yahoo.com> wrote:
Josh,

Can that date shift?

Nate

David Chelimsky wrote: 

I'd show up for that one!

What date are we talking about? Can we avoid June 2 as some folks (like 
me) are returning from Portland and won't be back in time to make it?

Cheers,
David


_______________________________________________
ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list

_______________________________________________
ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list



-- 
//Obtiva - Agility Applied. Software Delivered.
www.obtiva.com _______________________________________________
ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
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From jcroneme at thoughtworks.com  Thu May  1 15:16:29 2008
From: jcroneme at thoughtworks.com (Josh Cronemeyer)
Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 14:16:29 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] Calendar, June Meeting Ideas.
In-Reply-To: <4819E36D.3050500@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <OFDBB2787A.15CF1222-ON8625743C.00690CA3-8625743C.0069E11A@thoughtworks.com>

Nate, 

Sounds good.  Shoot for a presentation that is no more than 60 to 90 
minutes.  Also try to limit the amount of introductory material in the 
talk.  We have had 2 or 3 presentations on RSpec in the last couple years 
and each one introduced and in some cases gave detailed history of BDD. 
Anyway, that is my opinion.

Cheers,
Josh Cronemeyer



Nate Kirby <natebkirby at yahoo.com> 
Sent by: chicagogroup-members-list-bounces at rubyforge.org
05/01/08 10:36 AM
Please respond to
Chirb discussion list <chicagogroup-members-list at rubyforge.org>


To
Chirb discussion list <chicagogroup-members-list at rubyforge.org>
cc

Subject
Re: [Chirb] Calendar, June Meeting Ideas.






All,

So it looks like people would appreciate (attend) a session on June 2nd 
where some time was spent talking upon experiences discovered using 
BDD/Selenium with Rails.  Ryan is willing to act as a question answer, and 
I might be able to present something useful on my own. 

How much time should I shoot for?

I know chirb is into technical details, but the important things we found 
are more about high level strategy than technical details although I can 
add details for those uncomfortable with strategies.

The outline would be:

What is BDD? 
How does RSpec work (practical usage not internal)? 
How does Selenium work (with rails - once again practical usage not 
internals)?
What is story runner? (I know David covered this in Oct last year - so 
this will be cursory)
    Usage
What did we find about BDD?
    Duplication of effort
    Mocks v DB 
What did we find about Story Runner?
    Combine with Selenium?
    Engineers response
    Combinational complexity
What did we find about Selenium?

Then the final Unexpected result.
*Ryan can ask me question (actually anyone can - but I reserve the right 
to say "I don't know") as the session proceeds?

How does this sound?

Blessings,
Nate

Nick wrote: 
+1 for both too.

-Nick

----- Original Message ----
From: Eric Smith <paytonrules at gmail.com>
To: Chirb discussion list <chicagogroup-members-list at rubyforge.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 23, 2008 8:43:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Chirb] Calendar, June Meeting Ideas.

+1 for 2D gaming in Ruby.  Actually +1 for both. 

Eric Smith

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 5:35 PM, Josh Cronemeyer <
jcroneme at thoughtworks.com> wrote:

Ok!  Now we have options! 

Up for grabs - June 2nd meeting - 

Volunteered talks: 
-BDD tools best practices with Nate Kirby and Ryan Platte 
-2D gaming in ruby with some guy 

I'm happy to save mine for the July meeting which according to the webpage 
is a lightning talk session.  Or whatever.  Group, if you have opinions, 
now is the time to share them otherwise the usual noisy minority will make 
the decisions for you :) 

Josh Cronemeyer 


Nate Kirby <natebkirby at yahoo.com> 
Sent by: chicagogroup-members-list-bounces at rubyforge.org 
04/23/08 05:17 PM


Please respond to
Chirb discussion list <chicagogroup-members-list at rubyforge.org>


To
Chirb discussion list <chicagogroup-members-list at rubyforge.org> 
cc

Subject
Re: [Chirb] Calendar, June Meeting Ideas.








Josh,

If you want me to present I can.  What I have might not take up a whole 
meeting though.  Ryan's idea might be helpful.  Let's see if anyone else 
chimes in about their experiences.

I will be in town on June 2.

Blessings,
Nate


Nate, 

Sounds like it would be a good topic.  Just to keep the focus of my email 
though, I'm trying to line up a session for the June meeting.  Are you 
offering to talk about this June 2nd? 

Ryan Platte wrote: 
Nate, it'd be interesting to hear the story you mentioned. I'd love to 
hear about what you learned. 

Idea: if you're uncomfortable making a big deal of it, I'd be happy to 
present with you, asking questions, kind of like a 2-person panel format. 
But again, I'd be interested in learning more no matter how you'd want to 
present it. 

On Wed, Apr 23, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Nate Kirby <natebkirby at yahoo.com> wrote: 
Josh,

Those sound interesting, but if anyone has been using BDD, tools such as 
RSpec, Story Runner, Selenium, Cubic Test or any other quality improvement 
tools, it would be great to have a session where people talk about what 
they have found to be best practices.

We tried integrating RSpec Story Runner and Selenium.  The integration was 
easy, but it created a workflow nightmare that we had to back out of.  If 
others have stories about there experience it seems like such a session 
might be very valuable. 

-- 
Ryan Platte 


_______________________________________________
ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
_______________________________________________ 

ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list 

_______________________________________________
ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list



_______________________________________________
ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
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From peter at oaktop.com  Mon May  5 01:48:54 2008
From: peter at oaktop.com (Peter K Chan)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 07:48:54 +0200
Subject: [Chirb] Uger 0.6.1 on Chirb.org / Absence of Guest RSVP Option
Message-ID: <A250ACDE71BB1847AB72F6D84DB4F3B57EFE6C@ntxbeus24.exchange.xchg>

Hello,
	Just want to let you know that I have updated Uger on chirb.org
to version 0.6.1. This is a minor release, but I do want to point out
that the guest RSVP option has been hidden because of the security
requirement at Aon Center, such that everyone should RSVP for themselves
with their name (thanks to Josh at Thoughtworks for the reminder).

	Read on if you want to know the details for this new version.

	Another thing that you may have noticed, if you have tried to
RSVP recently, was the spamming done by automated bots. I have been
cleaning the spam entries manually, but I finally decided that a new
release with some built-in anti-spam mechanism would be in order.

	Normally, CAPTCHA would be a logical choice. However, I like how
easy it is to sign up and RSVP for events for Chirb, so I wanted to
preserve that ease and not to drop a CAPTCHA in and make everyone solve
a puzzle every time you want to RSVP for event.

	Currently, the anti-spam feature uses some heuristics to block
automated entries. First of all, Uger now enforces the rule that you
need to use a real email for your login name. Also, if you try to post
any hyperlink, your account need to be at least 1 hour old. Both fences
are meant to be invisible; you should not notice them if you have been a
regular Chirb-goer, but they should be a good defense against spambots
(unless they also read this list, which I hope they don't yet).

	I am aware that these are very simplistics rules, but I hope
that they can block most kinds of automated spamming. Of course, nothing
preclude us from adding CAPTCHA or other anti-spam features down the
road.

	Hope to see some of you at Monday's meeting.

Peter



From trevorturk at yahoo.com  Tue May  6 00:03:18 2008
From: trevorturk at yahoo.com (Trevor Turk)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 23:03:18 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] El Dorado 0.9 Release
In-Reply-To: <d54e183d0801232105r60d3658by35306d69c8bb840b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <d54e183d0801232105r60d3658by35306d69c8bb840b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d54e183d0805052103r4329fdeax3b9e0bcb5983f33b@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jan 24, 2008 at 12:05 AM, Trevor Turk <trevorturk at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I'm pleased to announce the first public release of El Dorado: a
>  full-stack community web application written in Ruby/Rails.

Sorry to have missed the meeting tonight, but I was able to finish up
some work...

I'm quite pleased to announce the release of El Dorado version 0.9.2 -
the "group chat" edition. You can check out the demo, testing, and
support site here:

http://eldorado.almosteffortless.com/

You can read more about this release and download the app here:

http://almosteffortless.com/2008/05/05/el-dorado-092-group-chat-edition/

Feedback very much appreciated!

Thanks,
- Trevor

From paytonrules at gmail.com  Tue May  6 10:00:53 2008
From: paytonrules at gmail.com (Eric Smith)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 09:00:53 -0500
Subject: [Chirb]  Slides
Message-ID: <f797531d0805060700q720ae2b1l7f27ff58b06bd3d8@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to everybody for coming last night.  The slides - working versions -
are available at:

http://blog.8thlight.com/articles/2008/05/06/chirb-presentation

Eric
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From doug.harvey at gmail.com  Tue May  6 11:10:58 2008
From: doug.harvey at gmail.com (Doug Harvey)
Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:10:58 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] Slides
In-Reply-To: <f797531d0805060700q720ae2b1l7f27ff58b06bd3d8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f797531d0805060700q720ae2b1l7f27ff58b06bd3d8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45f5fc930805060810t4874167ap9b590bf075303cfe@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/6/08, Eric Smith <paytonrules at gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks to everybody for coming last night.  The slides - working versions -
> are available at:

Eric,

Last night was my first night attending one of the chirb meetings.
Thanks for presenting.  I know that it isn't easy to get up and
present something (on any topic) to a group, but I thought I would
provide some constructive criticism/feedback for future presentations.

Get keynote/powerpoint.  I don't know if the browser-based slides is a
philosophical thing or note, but I think the problems you had with
slides detracted from your presentation and were a distraction.  The
content of the slides themselves were actually nice and clean.

During the coding portion of the presentation you were flipping around
a lot and it was difficult to follow what you were doing.  I was using
xcode (I also have textmate) but it certainly didn't seem like
textmate made things any easier, just more confusing.

I liked the demo application you chose.  Very small, simple, and
entertaining.  I'm guessing that rubycocoa can take advantage of
bonjour-style service discovery stuff?  If that didn't add too much
code that would have been a really cool thing to add.

Thanks again.

doug

From jquigley at jquigley.com  Tue May 13 02:00:25 2008
From: jquigley at jquigley.com (John Quigley)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 01:00:25 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] Chicago Lisp meeting and workshop
Message-ID: <48292E79.8080907@jquigley.com>

Hey Folks:

Chicago Lisp is meeting this coming Friday, May 16 at 7:00pm.  We'll be at the CashNetUSA Offices, at 200 W Jackson Blvd, Chicago, IL 60606 [1].  Slated presentations to be:

 - An Object System Using Macros (Grant Rattke)
 - Kawa and Clojure (Steve Githens)

I'd also like to notify you that we'll be hosting a 3- to 4-hour Lisp Workshop for beginners, the purpose of which will be to get you entirely bootstrapped and productive in a Lisp environment by the time you leave.  We'll be hosting this on Saturday, May 31 at 3:00pm at the Institute of Design, at 350 N LaSalle Blvd, 2nd floor, Chicago, IL 60610 [2].  More information about this on our wiki [3].

Please visit us at our new homepage:

http://www.chicagolisp.org/

and consider joining our discussion list for event notifications:

https://www.chicagolisp.org/lists/listinfo/chicago-lisp-discuss

Sorry for this off-topic email to your list, it will be the last.  We're a new group and we're simply trying to get the word out to Chicago developers about our existence.  We're open to absolutely everyone, and we'd love to meet you, so please consider joining us.  Thanks very much, and,

All my best,
John Quigley

[1] CashNetUSA Google Map: http://tinyurl.com/5n9pms
[2] Institute of Design Google Map: http://tinyurl.com/34gkzt
[3] Lisp Workshop info: http://www.chicagolisp.org/wiki/doku.php?id=lispworkshop




From kevin at obtiva.com  Tue May 13 10:11:32 2008
From: kevin at obtiva.com (Kevin Taylor)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 09:11:32 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] Chicago Lisp meeting and workshop
In-Reply-To: <48292E79.8080907@jquigley.com>
References: <48292E79.8080907@jquigley.com>
Message-ID: <744d5a650805130711n6e3eaa5etac1afa4db6504a4e@mail.gmail.com>

Friday evening meetings--Ugh. You wave a Lisp group in front of my face and
then snatch it away. That is cruel indeed.

Is it safe to assume none of you are married (to non-coders)? :-)

-- 
Kevin P. Taylor
(M): 630.456.1388

//obtiva - Agility applied. Software delivered.

http://obtiva.com

On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 1:00 AM, John Quigley <jquigley at jquigley.com> wrote:

> Hey Folks:
>
> Chicago Lisp is meeting this coming Friday, May 16 at 7:00pm.  We'll be at
> the CashNetUSA Offices, at 200 W Jackson Blvd, Chicago, IL 60606 [1].
>  Slated presentations to be:
>
> - An Object System Using Macros (Grant Rattke)
> - Kawa and Clojure (Steve Githens)
>
> I'd also like to notify you that we'll be hosting a 3- to 4-hour Lisp
> Workshop for beginners, the purpose of which will be to get you entirely
> bootstrapped and productive in a Lisp environment by the time you leave.
>  We'll be hosting this on Saturday, May 31 at 3:00pm at the Institute of
> Design, at 350 N LaSalle Blvd, 2nd floor, Chicago, IL 60610 [2].  More
> information about this on our wiki [3].
>
> Please visit us at our new homepage:
>
> http://www.chicagolisp.org/
>
> and consider joining our discussion list for event notifications:
>
> https://www.chicagolisp.org/lists/listinfo/chicago-lisp-discuss
>
> Sorry for this off-topic email to your list, it will be the last.  We're a
> new group and we're simply trying to get the word out to Chicago developers
> about our existence.  We're open to absolutely everyone, and we'd love to
> meet you, so please consider joining us.  Thanks very much, and,
>
> All my best,
> John Quigley
>
> [1] CashNetUSA Google Map: http://tinyurl.com/5n9pms
> [2] Institute of Design Google Map: http://tinyurl.com/34gkzt
> [3] Lisp Workshop info:
> http://www.chicagolisp.org/wiki/doku.php?id=lispworkshop
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
>
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From jquigley at jquigley.com  Tue May 13 12:24:51 2008
From: jquigley at jquigley.com (John Quigley)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 11:24:51 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] Chicago Lisp meeting and workshop
In-Reply-To: <744d5a650805130711n6e3eaa5etac1afa4db6504a4e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <48292E79.8080907@jquigley.com>
	<744d5a650805130711n6e3eaa5etac1afa4db6504a4e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4829C0D3.6020805@jquigley.com>

Kevin Taylor wrote:
> Friday evening meetings--Ugh. You wave a Lisp group in front of my face 
> and then snatch it away. That is cruel indeed.

Hey Kevin:

Less than ideal, we know.  On the positive side, we typically bring beer to the meetings, and then go out for dinner and drinks, so it's not radically geeky =)

It was a mildly contentious decision, but seemed to fit best, particularly amongst those with families interestingly enough.  Granted this was settled upon during our first meeting amongst the initial 8 members, so we'll likely be voting on this again as we continue to pick up new groupies.  Stay tuned!

- John Quigley

From natebkirby at yahoo.com  Wed May 14 08:00:23 2008
From: natebkirby at yahoo.com (Nate Kirby)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 07:00:23 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] Calendar, June Meeting Ideas.
In-Reply-To: <OFCBB25782.09DFCF34-ON8625743C.006787CF-8625743C.0067AC16@thoughtworks.com>
References: <OFCBB25782.09DFCF34-ON8625743C.006787CF-8625743C.0067AC16@thoughtworks.com>
Message-ID: <482AD457.6000604@yahoo.com>

Hey Josh,

What was the consensus on this?  Are we going with the 9th?

Blessings,
Nate

Josh Cronemeyer wrote:
>
> That's right.  Monday is the convention, but we deviate from that as 
> necessary.  Does anyone have a suggestion for a different day?  Do we 
> skip a week and go for the 9th?
>
> Josh Cronemeyer
>
>
> *"Andy Maleh" <andy at obtiva.com>*
> Sent by: chicagogroup-members-list-bounces at rubyforge.org
>
> 05/01/08 12:40 PM
> Please respond to
> Chirb discussion list <chicagogroup-members-list at rubyforge.org>
>
>
> 	
> To
> 	"Chirb discussion list" <chicagogroup-members-list at rubyforge.org>
> cc
> 	
> Subject
> 	Re: [Chirb] Calendar, June Meeting Ideas.
>
>
>
> 	
>
>
>
>
>
> To my knowledge, CHIRB meetings just happen on Mondays by default, but 
> they can be shifted when needed as Nick and I once did with our _talk 
> _ <http://www.chirb.org/event/show/24>(moved it to Thursday.)
>
> Andy
>
> On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 11:45 AM, Nate Kirby <_natebkirby at yahoo.com_ 
> <mailto:natebkirby at yahoo.com>> wrote:
> Josh,
>
> Can that date shift?
>
> Nate
>
> David Chelimsky wrote:
>
> I'd show up for that one!
>
> What date are we talking about? Can we avoid June 2 as some folks 
> (like me) are returning from Portland and won't be back in time to 
> make it?
>
> Cheers,
> David
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> _ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org_ 
> <mailto:ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org>
> _http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list_
>
> ________________________________________________
> __ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org_ 
> <mailto:ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org>_
> __http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list_
>
>
>
> -- 
> //Obtiva - Agility Applied. Software Delivered._
> __www.obtiva.com_ <http://www.obtiva.com/> 
> _______________________________________________
> ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
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From jcroneme at thoughtworks.com  Wed May 14 12:41:19 2008
From: jcroneme at thoughtworks.com (Josh Cronemeyer)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 11:41:19 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] Calendar, June Meeting Ideas.
In-Reply-To: <482AD457.6000604@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <OFA7BE7A3F.04437BD1-ON86257449.005B97AD-86257449.005BAC27@thoughtworks.com>

Let's do it!!!  June 9th.  I'll update the website later today.

Josh Cronemeyer



Nate Kirby <natebkirby at yahoo.com> 
Sent by: chicagogroup-members-list-bounces at rubyforge.org
05/14/08 07:00 AM
Please respond to
Chirb discussion list <chicagogroup-members-list at rubyforge.org>


To
Chirb discussion list <chicagogroup-members-list at rubyforge.org>
cc

Subject
Re: [Chirb] Calendar, June Meeting Ideas.






Hey Josh,

What was the consensus on this?  Are we going with the 9th?

Blessings,
Nate

Josh Cronemeyer wrote: 

That's right.  Monday is the convention, but we deviate from that as 
necessary.  Does anyone have a suggestion for a different day?  Do we skip 
a week and go for the 9th? 

Josh Cronemeyer 


"Andy Maleh" <andy at obtiva.com> 
Sent by: chicagogroup-members-list-bounces at rubyforge.org 
05/01/08 12:40 PM 

Please respond to
Chirb discussion list <chicagogroup-members-list at rubyforge.org>



To
"Chirb discussion list" <chicagogroup-members-list at rubyforge.org> 
cc

Subject
Re: [Chirb] Calendar, June Meeting Ideas.








To my knowledge, CHIRB meetings just happen on Mondays by default, but 
they can be shifted when needed as Nick and I once did with our talk 
(moved it to Thursday.)

Andy

On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 11:45 AM, Nate Kirby <natebkirby at yahoo.com> wrote: 
Josh,

Can that date shift?

Nate

David Chelimsky wrote: 

I'd show up for that one! 

What date are we talking about? Can we avoid June 2 as some folks (like 
me) are returning from Portland and won't be back in time to make it? 

Cheers, 
David 


_______________________________________________
ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list 

_______________________________________________
ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list 



-- 
//Obtiva - Agility Applied. Software Delivered.
www.obtiva.com _______________________________________________
ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list 


_______________________________________________
ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
_______________________________________________
ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
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From kevin at obtiva.com  Wed May 14 19:47:21 2008
From: kevin at obtiva.com (Kevin Taylor)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 18:47:21 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] [JOB] Software Apprentice
Message-ID: <744d5a650805141647v459a40a4y3863d99b9cb4491d@mail.gmail.com>

Obtiva, a leading Agile software development company located in Chicago, is
seeking a Software Apprentice.

Don't just join another company. Join a group that shares your passion.

Do you:
- see beauty in code?

Do you:
- thrive in an open, honest, and collaborative environment?

Do you:
- have at least 6 mos. of coding experience?

Do you:
- want to work side-by-side with master craftsmen?

If you can answer yes to all of the above, send a resume and a short cover
letter describing why you want to join Obtiva as a Software Apprentice.

Whether immersed with client teams on-site, coding in the Obtiva Software
Studio, or leading training at locations throughout North America, we
combine the pragmatism and technical mastery necessary to manage risk,
affect change, and deliver outstanding software.

Obtiva believes in hiring people who are passionate about their craft and
provides continuous learning and growth opportunities in a culture where
they can thrive. Our consultants are experienced practitioners who share
their knowledge of XP, Agile, and innovative new technologies throughout
North America.

Please send resumes with cover letters to jobs at obtiva.com.

-- 
Kevin P. Taylor
(M): 630.456.1388

//obtiva - Agility applied. Software delivered.

http://obtiva.com
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From jcroneme at thoughtworks.com  Thu May 15 10:07:04 2008
From: jcroneme at thoughtworks.com (Josh Cronemeyer)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 09:07:04 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] June Meeting Added to Site and Google Calendar.
Message-ID: <OFCC92E8A7.D8705734-ON8625744A.004D1803-8625744A.004D8D01@thoughtworks.com>

Nate and Ryan.  Let me know if I have goofed on any of the details or you 
have a better description/title for me to drop in.  I just made some stuff 
up.
http://www.chirb.org/event/show/29
http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=f6ga18j631bck8rqlu9viogcmg%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=America/Chicago

Josh Cronemeyer
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From natebkirby at yahoo.com  Thu May 15 10:57:04 2008
From: natebkirby at yahoo.com (Nate Kirby)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 09:57:04 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] June Meeting Added to Site and Google Calendar.
In-Reply-To: <OFCC92E8A7.D8705734-ON8625744A.004D1803-8625744A.004D8D01@thoughtworks.com>
References: <OFCC92E8A7.D8705734-ON8625744A.004D1803-8625744A.004D8D01@thoughtworks.com>
Message-ID: <482C4F40.4070802@yahoo.com>

Josh,

Thanks for taking the time to set this up.

One thing is that I do not know much about cubic test (maybe Ryan 
does).  Also, what I think we will be discussing is more logistic and 
strategic and less about the nuts and bolts of these tools, So 
experiences and best practices is where the talk will be going.

I am going to try to talk with Ryan and after that I can present a 
better blurb of text describing the presentation.

Blessings,
Nate

Josh Cronemeyer wrote:
>
> Nate and Ryan.  Let me know if I have goofed on any of the details or 
> you have a better description/title for me to drop in.  I just made 
> some stuff up.
> http://www.chirb.org/event/show/29
> http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=f6ga18j631bck8rqlu9viogcmg%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=America/Chicago 
> <http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=f6ga18j631bck8rqlu9viogcmg%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=America/Chicago> 
>
>
> Josh Cronemeyer
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
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From jcroneme at thoughtworks.com  Thu May 15 14:27:40 2008
From: jcroneme at thoughtworks.com (Josh Cronemeyer)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 13:27:40 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] June Meeting Added to Site and Google Calendar.
In-Reply-To: <482C4F40.4070802@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <OF25D8651E.470BF5C4-ON8625744A.00655CE7-8625744A.0065688A@thoughtworks.com>

We'll just call my current description/title placeholders for whatever you 
decide after you and Ryan get together.

Josh Cronemeyer



Nate Kirby <natebkirby at yahoo.com> 
Sent by: chicagogroup-members-list-bounces at rubyforge.org
05/15/08 09:57 AM
Please respond to
Chirb discussion list <chicagogroup-members-list at rubyforge.org>


To
Chirb discussion list <chicagogroup-members-list at rubyforge.org>
cc

Subject
Re: [Chirb] June Meeting Added to Site and Google Calendar.






Josh,

Thanks for taking the time to set this up.

One thing is that I do not know much about cubic test (maybe Ryan does). 
Also, what I think we will be discussing is more logistic and strategic 
and less about the nuts and bolts of these tools, So experiences and best 
practices is where the talk will be going.

I am going to try to talk with Ryan and after that I can present a better 
blurb of text describing the presentation.

Blessings,
Nate

Josh Cronemeyer wrote: 

Nate and Ryan.  Let me know if I have goofed on any of the details or you 
have a better description/title for me to drop in.  I just made some stuff 
up. 
http://www.chirb.org/event/show/29 
http://www.google.com/calendar/embed?src=f6ga18j631bck8rqlu9viogcmg%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=America/Chicago 


Josh Cronemeyer 


_______________________________________________
ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
_______________________________________________
ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
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From trevorturk at yahoo.com  Sun May 18 19:30:02 2008
From: trevorturk at yahoo.com (Trevor Turk)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 18:30:02 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] WindyCityRails
Message-ID: <d54e183d0805181630r32207abr98854a44595c9c21@mail.gmail.com>

Please excuse me if this has been mentioned already, but ChicagoRuby
(the other Ruby group in Chicago) just announced WindyCity Rails. It's
a $99 Rails conference in Chicago taking place on Sept 20. All profits
will benefit the Greater Chicago Food Depository, which is sweet.

I just signed up, and I'm sure there will be some interest from the
Chirb folk as well:

http://www.windycityrails.org/

There are only 180 spots, and I expect it will sell out fairly
quickly. Drop a line to this list if you'll be there.

Thanks,
- Trevor

From andy at obtiva.com  Mon May 19 00:00:49 2008
From: andy at obtiva.com (Andy Maleh)
Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 23:00:49 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] Polyglot Programmers meeting this Thursday
Message-ID: <620ca2c40805182100s5c7c8a7cq71438945f598921c@mail.gmail.com>

A new user group was started last month, called Polyglot Programmers.
Its members are passionate about learning different programming
languages and applying the right tool for the right job. The first two
meetings were on Ruby and JavaScript, and they were held in the
suburbs. This Thursday will be the first meeting for Polyglot
Programmers in Chicago, which will have a presentation by Chris McAvoy
about Jython.

Here are the details:

Date & Time: Thursday, May 22nd at 6:00PM
Place: Obtiva Corporation, 566 W. Adams, suite 400, Chicago
Eat: Pizza
Drink: Soda

Topic:
Jython Reborn.  Despite the rumors, Jython isn't dead.  Recent
investment from Sun has breathed new life into the Jython project.
We'll talk about some of the recent changes, the roadmap for the
project, and play around with the latest trunk version of Jython.

Chris McAvoy is a web developer at PSC Group LLC, and a blogger at
http://lonelylion.com

More information about the user group can be found at:
http://www.polyglotprogrammers.com/

Best regards,

Andy Maleh

From andy at obtiva.com  Thu May 22 12:53:22 2008
From: andy at obtiva.com (Andy Maleh)
Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 11:53:22 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] Fwd: Speaker/Topic change for Thursday's PPoC meeting (was
	Chris McAvoy presents...)
In-Reply-To: <11c8704e0805201936xf107dadt41ba8e3ce42e72c1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <11c8704e0805201936xf107dadt41ba8e3ce42e72c1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <620ca2c40805220953o4a4780c2je11a0852fd4b49ff@mail.gmail.com>

FYI, Polyglot Programmer's topic changed to: "Polyglot and
Poly-paradigm Programming (for the Persnickety)" by Dean Wampler.

Regards,

Andy Maleh
http://andymaleh.blogspot.com

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Dave Hoover <dave.hoover at gmail.com>
Date: Tue, May 20, 2008 at 9:36 PM
Subject: Speaker/Topic change for Thursday's PPoC meeting (was Chris
McAvoy presents...)
To: polyglot-programmers at googlegroups.com


Chris McAvoy needed to switch his Jython talk to next month and Dean
Wampler has graciously stepped in at the last minute to give the talk
he had planned to give next month.  Dean gave this talk at SD West in
March.  Here is the update...

Date & Time: Thursday, May 22nd at 6:00PM
Place: Obtiva Corporation, 566 W. Adams, suite 400, Chicago
Eat: Pizza
Drink: Soda

Title: Polyglot and Poly-paradigm Programming (for the Persnickety)

Here is the description from the SD West web site...

Is one language and one "paradigm" right for your entire application?
Probably not. This class shows how combining several well-chosen
programming languages and modularity paradigms (object-oriented,
aspect-oriented, functional, etc.) can improve your applications and
productivity. You're probably already using
Java/C#/C++/XML/HTML/Javascript, plus SQL, plus ant/maven/make and
assorted scripts. This class goes to the next level of integration,
where "components + scripts = applications". That is, designs that
integrate higher-level "policy" code, written in high-productivity
languages (Ruby, Python, etc.), with lower-level components, written
for performance or to bridge to third-party and legacy components
(C/C++, Java, etc.). We'll discuss classic, prototypical examples like
Emacs (C plus elisp) and more modern examples that pair Ruby with C
and Java in various ways. We'll also discuss how growing issues like
concurrency are driving resurgent interest in functional languages and
how "cross-cutting concerns" led to aspect-oriented programming.
Finally, we'll consider whether or not domain-specific languages
(DSLs) are the "ultimate" scripting language.

And Dean's bio from the SD West web site...

Dean Wampler is a Consultant and Mentor with Object Mentor, Inc.
(http://www.objectmentor.com), where he provides teaching and
mentoring services to clients in agile methods, good software design
principles, Ruby, and Java. Dean is actively involved in the
Aspect-Oriented Software Development (AOSD) community and he is an
expert on Ruby, Ruby on Rails, and Enterprise Java. He speaks on these
and other topics at industry and research conferences worldwide. Dean
is the author of several open-source projects, including Aquarium, an
AOP library for Ruby (http://aquarium.rubyforge.org), and Contract4J,
a design by contract library for Java (http://www.contract4j.org).
Dean contributed the Systems chapter to Robert Martin's
recently-published book entitled Clean Code.
http://www.objectmentor.com


Questions?
Contact dave at obtiva.com or post to
http://groups.google.com/group/polyglot-programmers or visit
http://polyglotprogrammers.com

Spread the word!
--Dave



-- 
//Obtiva - Agility Applied. Software Delivered.
www.obtiva.com

From brandon at opensoul.org  Fri May 23 00:01:42 2008
From: brandon at opensoul.org (Brandon Keepers)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 00:01:42 -0400
Subject: [Chirb] [adv] Ruby on Rails training : Sessions by Collective Idea
Message-ID: <BB71F0C4-ABDE-4D47-959A-92CA681064F3@opensoul.org>

Hey chirb,

I wanted to let you know about a training opportunity happening just  
across the lake from you. Collective Idea, a Ruby on Rails software  
development company, is hosting a Ruby on Rails training session in  
Holland, MI, on June 23-26.

We thought this would be a great opportunity for people in the Chicago  
area. It's far enough away to make for a good vacation, but not too  
far to cost an arm and a leg.

http://sessions.collectiveidea.com

Sessions is a new take on training. Not only are we putting together  
amazing training courses (starting with Ruby on Rails), we're making  
it fun.

We're starting by bringing people to Holland, Michigan. Most training  
takes place in an out-of the way hotel or conference center with no  
character, we're changing that. Holland in the summer simply feels  
like a vacation. Learning and staying at the brand new CityFlats Hotel  
is an experience and adds to the unique flavor that is Sessions.

When the day ends you don't have to go back to your room. We're giving  
you opportunities to see the area and meet other Rubyists, as well as  
helping you explore on your own.

The content of the Ruby on Rails Session has already been praised by  
students around the world. We're not focusing just on the fun, we're  
simply adding it on.

Spend four days with veteran instructors learning Ruby on Rails.  
Whether you're new to web programming, or just new to Rails, you'll  
walk away with practical experience and with confidence in your  
ability to use Rails effectively.

Sign up by May 31 and save 20%.

Thanks,
Brandon
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From tdenkinger at gmail.com  Tue May 27 17:00:45 2008
From: tdenkinger at gmail.com (Troy Denkinger)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 17:00:45 -0400
Subject: [Chirb] Rails Scaling Experience?
Message-ID: <b98e048e0805271400s7adf8e92n8a413f22b7cfb543@mail.gmail.com>

All,

I'm right in the midst of advocating for use of Rails on a project I'm
in the middle of.  I manage a team that has created a service that
runs on Rails.  To date we've been in development and haven't had any
serious outside usage, nor have we deployed on production-ready
hardware.  We are very happy with the ease of development, how
responsive we can be to the business requirements, and the support
we've found within the community at large.

Recently we have been asked to merge our service into an existing
company that has always used a Java stack in their development.  They
have a couple developers and an operations team that is comfortable
with Java.  The major concern about using our Rails code is that they
are concerned with scaling of Rails apps in general, and they are
using that concern to advocate a port of the existing Rails code to
their Java stack.

I know one thing that would make the Ops team happy is to talk to
someone who has actual experience with large-scale Rails deployments.
I think they're being rightly pragmatic about this, and I'd like to
find them someone to talk to.  Anyone know anyone who would be willing
to talk a bit about what they've done to scale a Rails installation?
I'm sure I could work up some sort of compensation for someone with
relevant experience who'd like to share it.

Regards,

Troy

From lennen at xploreu.com  Tue May 27 19:17:05 2008
From: lennen at xploreu.com (Lance Ennen)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 18:17:05 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] Career Opportunity
Message-ID: <52f93b7c0805271617i1224c4fdlf87caf15de2994ce@mail.gmail.com>

Were looking to add a Lead/Project Manager to help build a RoR Social
Network. Please, let me know if you know anyone in Chicago! Thanks. -Lance
Ennen

-- 
Lance Ennen
Lead Software Developer
XploreU, LLC.
lennen at xploreu.com
Office: (773) 697 - 8019
Cell: (312) 402 - 2237
Skype: ByENNEN
www.XploreU.com

GO SOMEWHERE...

----------------------------------------------------------------------
This email, including any attachments, is confidential and may be
legally privileged. If you have received it in error please advise the
sender immediately by return email and then delete it from your system.
The unauthorized use, distribution, copying or alteration of this
email is strictly prohibited by law. This message contains views or opinions
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From hubrix at hubrix.com  Tue May 27 20:33:16 2008
From: hubrix at hubrix.com (Mark Alexander Friedgan)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2008 19:33:16 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] Rails Scaling Experience?
In-Reply-To: <b98e048e0805271400s7adf8e92n8a413f22b7cfb543@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b98e048e0805271400s7adf8e92n8a413f22b7cfb543@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e1112fd0805271733h4dd5280dta4f57bb6a40f2eeb@mail.gmail.com>

you know, if you would rather work for a company that uses rails and has
successfully made it scale rather than convince someone that it's a good idea
we're hiring :)

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 4:00 PM, Troy Denkinger <tdenkinger at gmail.com> wrote:
> All,
>
> I'm right in the midst of advocating for use of Rails on a project I'm
> in the middle of.  I manage a team that has created a service that
> runs on Rails.  To date we've been in development and haven't had any
> serious outside usage, nor have we deployed on production-ready
> hardware.  We are very happy with the ease of development, how
> responsive we can be to the business requirements, and the support
> we've found within the community at large.
>
> Recently we have been asked to merge our service into an existing
> company that has always used a Java stack in their development.  They
> have a couple developers and an operations team that is comfortable
> with Java.  The major concern about using our Rails code is that they
> are concerned with scaling of Rails apps in general, and they are
> using that concern to advocate a port of the existing Rails code to
> their Java stack.
>
> I know one thing that would make the Ops team happy is to talk to
> someone who has actual experience with large-scale Rails deployments.
> I think they're being rightly pragmatic about this, and I'd like to
> find them someone to talk to.  Anyone know anyone who would be willing
> to talk a bit about what they've done to scale a Rails installation?
> I'm sure I could work up some sort of compensation for someone with
> relevant experience who'd like to share it.
>
> Regards,
>
> Troy
> _______________________________________________
> ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
>

From peter at oaktop.com  Wed May 28 23:05:29 2008
From: peter at oaktop.com (Peter K Chan)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 05:05:29 +0200
Subject: [Chirb] Rails Scaling Experience?
In-Reply-To: <b98e048e0805271400s7adf8e92n8a413f22b7cfb543@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b98e048e0805271400s7adf8e92n8a413f22b7cfb543@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A250ACDE71BB1847AB72F6D84DB4F3B5855A0F@ntxbeus24.exchange.xchg>

Troy,
	Since you mentioned that your operation folks are comfortable
with Java, you may want to consider exploring Rails on JRuby. You can
package your app as a war file, which for all purposes looks just like a
regular Java web app on the outside. You get the benefit of developing
in Ruby, and deploying on JVM.

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: chicagogroup-members-list-bounces at rubyforge.org
[mailto:chicagogroup-members-list-bounces at rubyforge.org] On Behalf Of
Troy Denkinger
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 4:01 PM
To: Chirb discussion list
Subject: [Chirb] Rails Scaling Experience?

All,

I'm right in the midst of advocating for use of Rails on a project I'm
in the middle of.  I manage a team that has created a service that
runs on Rails.  To date we've been in development and haven't had any
serious outside usage, nor have we deployed on production-ready
hardware.  We are very happy with the ease of development, how
responsive we can be to the business requirements, and the support
we've found within the community at large.

Recently we have been asked to merge our service into an existing
company that has always used a Java stack in their development.  They
have a couple developers and an operations team that is comfortable
with Java.  The major concern about using our Rails code is that they
are concerned with scaling of Rails apps in general, and they are
using that concern to advocate a port of the existing Rails code to
their Java stack.

I know one thing that would make the Ops team happy is to talk to
someone who has actual experience with large-scale Rails deployments.
I think they're being rightly pragmatic about this, and I'd like to
find them someone to talk to.  Anyone know anyone who would be willing
to talk a bit about what they've done to scale a Rails installation?
I'm sure I could work up some sort of compensation for someone with
relevant experience who'd like to share it.

Regards,

Troy
_______________________________________________
ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list

From sean.seanlynch at gmail.com  Thu May 29 10:02:04 2008
From: sean.seanlynch at gmail.com (Sean Lynch)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 09:02:04 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] Rails Scaling Experience?
In-Reply-To: <A250ACDE71BB1847AB72F6D84DB4F3B5855A0F@ntxbeus24.exchange.xchg>
References: <b98e048e0805271400s7adf8e92n8a413f22b7cfb543@mail.gmail.com>
	<A250ACDE71BB1847AB72F6D84DB4F3B5855A0F@ntxbeus24.exchange.xchg>
Message-ID: <40651cc90805290702s3b935dafh7cb0047273929253@mail.gmail.com>

The java based netbeans ide (v 6.1) from Sun integrates  JRuby and Rails
pretty well. having something from Sun that supports Ruby and Rails so
prominently will probably quiet any grumbling from Java folks.

It seems smart to play on your shop's strengths. If they have J2EE
deployment experience, they will feel more comfortable wrapping up a Ruby on
Rails app developed in JRuby as a war file and dropping it in a web
container for deployment.



On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 10:05 PM, Peter K Chan <peter at oaktop.com> wrote:

> Troy,
>        Since you mentioned that your operation folks are comfortable
> with Java, you may want to consider exploring Rails on JRuby. You can
> package your app as a war file, which for all purposes looks just like a
> regular Java web app on the outside. You get the benefit of developing
> in Ruby, and deploying on JVM.
>
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: chicagogroup-members-list-bounces at rubyforge.org
> [mailto:chicagogroup-members-list-bounces at rubyforge.org] On Behalf Of
> Troy Denkinger
> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 4:01 PM
> To: Chirb discussion list
> Subject: [Chirb] Rails Scaling Experience?
>
> All,
>
> I'm right in the midst of advocating for use of Rails on a project I'm
> in the middle of.  I manage a team that has created a service that
> runs on Rails.  To date we've been in development and haven't had any
> serious outside usage, nor have we deployed on production-ready
> hardware.  We are very happy with the ease of development, how
> responsive we can be to the business requirements, and the support
> we've found within the community at large.
>
> Recently we have been asked to merge our service into an existing
> company that has always used a Java stack in their development.  They
> have a couple developers and an operations team that is comfortable
> with Java.  The major concern about using our Rails code is that they
> are concerned with scaling of Rails apps in general, and they are
> using that concern to advocate a port of the existing Rails code to
> their Java stack.
>
> I know one thing that would make the Ops team happy is to talk to
> someone who has actual experience with large-scale Rails deployments.
> I think they're being rightly pragmatic about this, and I'd like to
> find them someone to talk to.  Anyone know anyone who would be willing
> to talk a bit about what they've done to scale a Rails installation?
> I'm sure I could work up some sort of compensation for someone with
> relevant experience who'd like to share it.
>
> Regards,
>
> Troy
> _______________________________________________
> ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
> _______________________________________________
> ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
>
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From RGarcia at glotelinc.com  Thu May 29 10:08:57 2008
From: RGarcia at glotelinc.com (Ryan Garcia)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 09:08:57 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] Rails Scaling Experience?
In-Reply-To: <40651cc90805290702s3b935dafh7cb0047273929253@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b98e048e0805271400s7adf8e92n8a413f22b7cfb543@mail.gmail.com><A250ACDE71BB1847AB72F6D84DB4F3B5855A0F@ntxbeus24.exchange.xchg>
	<40651cc90805290702s3b935dafh7cb0047273929253@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <544FC5466FDDBE49BB42E07D8318E844C158BC@CHIMAIL01.us.spring.com>

Hello All,

 

I was wondering if anyone on here knew someone who may be looking for
full-time Rails work.  I have a great opportunity that can pay between
80-90K for a mid-senior level developer.  If you are interested, or know
someone who may be, please give me a call or shoot me an email.

 

Thanks,

Ryan

 

Ryan Garcia

Regional Sales Executive

Glotel, Inc. - Chicago

> technology working

Dir Tel: 312-777-1722

Main Fax: 312-715-0756

Cell: 312-731-4356

E-mail: rgarcia at glotelinc.com

Join my LinkedIn Network: http://www.linkedin.com/in/sryangarcia
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/sryangarcia> 

http://www.glotel.com <http://www.glotel.com/> 

 

 

The information contained in this communication is confidential and may
constitute non-public and/or "inside" information.  It is intended only
for the use of the addressee and is the property of Glotel, Inc.
Unauthorized use, disclosure, or copying of this communication, or any
part thereof, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.  If you
received this communication in error, please notify me immediately by
return e-mail and destroy this communication and all copies thereof,
including all attachments.

 

________________________________

From: chicagogroup-members-list-bounces at rubyforge.org
[mailto:chicagogroup-members-list-bounces at rubyforge.org] On Behalf Of
Sean Lynch
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2008 9:02 AM
To: Chirb discussion list
Subject: Re: [Chirb] Rails Scaling Experience?

 

The java based netbeans ide (v 6.1) from Sun integrates  JRuby and Rails
pretty well. having something from Sun that supports Ruby and Rails so
prominently will probably quiet any grumbling from Java folks.

It seems smart to play on your shop's strengths. If they have J2EE
deployment experience, they will feel more comfortable wrapping up a
Ruby on Rails app developed in JRuby as a war file and dropping it in a
web container for deployment.




On Wed, May 28, 2008 at 10:05 PM, Peter K Chan <peter at oaktop.com> wrote:

Troy,
       Since you mentioned that your operation folks are comfortable
with Java, you may want to consider exploring Rails on JRuby. You can
package your app as a war file, which for all purposes looks just like a
regular Java web app on the outside. You get the benefit of developing
in Ruby, and deploying on JVM.

Peter


-----Original Message-----
From: chicagogroup-members-list-bounces at rubyforge.org
[mailto:chicagogroup-members-list-bounces at rubyforge.org] On Behalf Of
Troy Denkinger
Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 4:01 PM
To: Chirb discussion list
Subject: [Chirb] Rails Scaling Experience?

All,

I'm right in the midst of advocating for use of Rails on a project I'm
in the middle of.  I manage a team that has created a service that
runs on Rails.  To date we've been in development and haven't had any
serious outside usage, nor have we deployed on production-ready
hardware.  We are very happy with the ease of development, how
responsive we can be to the business requirements, and the support
we've found within the community at large.

Recently we have been asked to merge our service into an existing
company that has always used a Java stack in their development.  They
have a couple developers and an operations team that is comfortable
with Java.  The major concern about using our Rails code is that they
are concerned with scaling of Rails apps in general, and they are
using that concern to advocate a port of the existing Rails code to
their Java stack.

I know one thing that would make the Ops team happy is to talk to
someone who has actual experience with large-scale Rails deployments.
I think they're being rightly pragmatic about this, and I'd like to
find them someone to talk to.  Anyone know anyone who would be willing
to talk a bit about what they've done to scale a Rails installation?
I'm sure I could work up some sort of compensation for someone with
relevant experience who'd like to share it.

Regards,

Troy
_______________________________________________
ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
_______________________________________________
ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list

 

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From leon at chism.org  Thu May 29 10:57:13 2008
From: leon at chism.org (Leon Chism)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 09:57:13 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] Rails Scaling Experience?
In-Reply-To: <b98e048e0805271400s7adf8e92n8a413f22b7cfb543@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b98e048e0805271400s7adf8e92n8a413f22b7cfb543@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F5624E6D-4985-4457-B4A2-312650D64154@chism.org>


Hi Troy. I'm currently the CTO of a Rails based startup called  
Viewpoints.com and was formerly the Chief Architect at Orbitz, so I  
know a bit about scale, Java, and Ruby. I'd like to help if I can, but  
it probably makes sense to get into the details of their concerns. If  
you want to do that on this list, that's fine, otherwise you can email  
me directly at leon at chism dot org.

To get the conversation started:

I'm curious what "large scale Rails deployment" means to you. We are  
not small, but we aren't huge either (Alexa 38,040; Compete 5,684). We  
have spent a fair amount of time thinking about the metrics to track  
and how to recreate some of the tools we used in the Java world for  
ops/monitoring/management.

It sounds like the issue is scaling but might also be  
operationalization of the platform. Have they raised more specific  
concerns than "we know java better"?

leon

On May 27, 2008, at 4:00 PM, Troy Denkinger wrote:

> All,
>
> I'm right in the midst of advocating for use of Rails on a project I'm
> in the middle of.  I manage a team that has created a service that
> runs on Rails.  To date we've been in development and haven't had any
> serious outside usage, nor have we deployed on production-ready
> hardware.  We are very happy with the ease of development, how
> responsive we can be to the business requirements, and the support
> we've found within the community at large.
>
> Recently we have been asked to merge our service into an existing
> company that has always used a Java stack in their development.  They
> have a couple developers and an operations team that is comfortable
> with Java.  The major concern about using our Rails code is that they
> are concerned with scaling of Rails apps in general, and they are
> using that concern to advocate a port of the existing Rails code to
> their Java stack.
>
> I know one thing that would make the Ops team happy is to talk to
> someone who has actual experience with large-scale Rails deployments.
> I think they're being rightly pragmatic about this, and I'd like to
> find them someone to talk to.  Anyone know anyone who would be willing
> to talk a bit about what they've done to scale a Rails installation?
> I'm sure I could work up some sort of compensation for someone with
> relevant experience who'd like to share it.
>
> Regards,
>
> Troy
> _______________________________________________
> ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list


From natebkirby at yahoo.com  Thu May 29 12:20:00 2008
From: natebkirby at yahoo.com (Nate Kirby)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 11:20:00 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] Rails Scaling Experience?
In-Reply-To: <F5624E6D-4985-4457-B4A2-312650D64154@chism.org>
References: <b98e048e0805271400s7adf8e92n8a413f22b7cfb543@mail.gmail.com>
	<F5624E6D-4985-4457-B4A2-312650D64154@chism.org>
Message-ID: <483ED7B0.8030203@yahoo.com>

I personnally would love to get an experienced engineers take on 
performance, scaling, profiling and RoR.  This might make for a great 
session at Chirb.  At least seeing the email traffic would be 
interesting to me.

Blessings,
Nate

Leon Chism wrote:
>
> Hi Troy. I'm currently the CTO of a Rails based startup called 
> Viewpoints.com and was formerly the Chief Architect at Orbitz, so I 
> know a bit about scale, Java, and Ruby. I'd like to help if I can, but 
> it probably makes sense to get into the details of their concerns. If 
> you want to do that on this list, that's fine, otherwise you can email 
> me directly at leon at chism dot org.
>
> To get the conversation started:
>
> I'm curious what "large scale Rails deployment" means to you. We are 
> not small, but we aren't huge either (Alexa 38,040; Compete 5,684). We 
> have spent a fair amount of time thinking about the metrics to track 
> and how to recreate some of the tools we used in the Java world for 
> ops/monitoring/management.
>
> It sounds like the issue is scaling but might also be 
> operationalization of the platform. Have they raised more specific 
> concerns than "we know java better"?
>
> leon
>
> On May 27, 2008, at 4:00 PM, Troy Denkinger wrote:
>
>> All,
>>
>> I'm right in the midst of advocating for use of Rails on a project I'm
>> in the middle of.  I manage a team that has created a service that
>> runs on Rails.  To date we've been in development and haven't had any
>> serious outside usage, nor have we deployed on production-ready
>> hardware.  We are very happy with the ease of development, how
>> responsive we can be to the business requirements, and the support
>> we've found within the community at large.
>>
>> Recently we have been asked to merge our service into an existing
>> company that has always used a Java stack in their development.  They
>> have a couple developers and an operations team that is comfortable
>> with Java.  The major concern about using our Rails code is that they
>> are concerned with scaling of Rails apps in general, and they are
>> using that concern to advocate a port of the existing Rails code to
>> their Java stack.
>>
>> I know one thing that would make the Ops team happy is to talk to
>> someone who has actual experience with large-scale Rails deployments.
>> I think they're being rightly pragmatic about this, and I'd like to
>> find them someone to talk to.  Anyone know anyone who would be willing
>> to talk a bit about what they've done to scale a Rails installation?
>> I'm sure I could work up some sort of compensation for someone with
>> relevant experience who'd like to share it.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Troy
>> _______________________________________________
>> ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
>
> _______________________________________________
> ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
>

From tdenkinger at gmail.com  Thu May 29 12:30:41 2008
From: tdenkinger at gmail.com (Troy Denkinger)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 12:30:41 -0400
Subject: [Chirb] Rails Scaling Experience?
In-Reply-To: <483ED7B0.8030203@yahoo.com>
References: <b98e048e0805271400s7adf8e92n8a413f22b7cfb543@mail.gmail.com>
	<F5624E6D-4985-4457-B4A2-312650D64154@chism.org>
	<483ED7B0.8030203@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <b98e048e0805290930t4f7f240emd320da6672c05cc9@mail.gmail.com>

I agree, Nate.  I've gotten some great and thoughtful responses both
on the list and privately from my original posting.

Troy

On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 12:20 PM, Nate Kirby <natebkirby at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I personnally would love to get an experienced engineers take on
> performance, scaling, profiling and RoR.  This might make for a great
> session at Chirb.  At least seeing the email traffic would be interesting to
> me.
>
> Blessings,
> Nate
>
> Leon Chism wrote:
>>
>> Hi Troy. I'm currently the CTO of a Rails based startup called
>> Viewpoints.com and was formerly the Chief Architect at Orbitz, so I know a
>> bit about scale, Java, and Ruby. I'd like to help if I can, but it probably
>> makes sense to get into the details of their concerns. If you want to do
>> that on this list, that's fine, otherwise you can email me directly at leon
>> at chism dot org.
>>
>> To get the conversation started:
>>
>> I'm curious what "large scale Rails deployment" means to you. We are not
>> small, but we aren't huge either (Alexa 38,040; Compete 5,684). We have
>> spent a fair amount of time thinking about the metrics to track and how to
>> recreate some of the tools we used in the Java world for
>> ops/monitoring/management.
>>
>> It sounds like the issue is scaling but might also be operationalization
>> of the platform. Have they raised more specific concerns than "we know java
>> better"?
>>
>> leon
>>
>> On May 27, 2008, at 4:00 PM, Troy Denkinger wrote:
>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> I'm right in the midst of advocating for use of Rails on a project I'm
>>> in the middle of.  I manage a team that has created a service that
>>> runs on Rails.  To date we've been in development and haven't had any
>>> serious outside usage, nor have we deployed on production-ready
>>> hardware.  We are very happy with the ease of development, how
>>> responsive we can be to the business requirements, and the support
>>> we've found within the community at large.
>>>
>>> Recently we have been asked to merge our service into an existing
>>> company that has always used a Java stack in their development.  They
>>> have a couple developers and an operations team that is comfortable
>>> with Java.  The major concern about using our Rails code is that they
>>> are concerned with scaling of Rails apps in general, and they are
>>> using that concern to advocate a port of the existing Rails code to
>>> their Java stack.
>>>
>>> I know one thing that would make the Ops team happy is to talk to
>>> someone who has actual experience with large-scale Rails deployments.
>>> I think they're being rightly pragmatic about this, and I'd like to
>>> find them someone to talk to.  Anyone know anyone who would be willing
>>> to talk a bit about what they've done to scale a Rails installation?
>>> I'm sure I could work up some sort of compensation for someone with
>>> relevant experience who'd like to share it.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Troy
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
>>
>

From lydia.tripp at gmail.com  Thu May 29 12:32:20 2008
From: lydia.tripp at gmail.com (Lydia Tripp)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 11:32:20 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] Rails Scaling Experience?
In-Reply-To: <b98e048e0805290930t4f7f240emd320da6672c05cc9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b98e048e0805271400s7adf8e92n8a413f22b7cfb543@mail.gmail.com>
	<F5624E6D-4985-4457-B4A2-312650D64154@chism.org>
	<483ED7B0.8030203@yahoo.com>
	<b98e048e0805290930t4f7f240emd320da6672c05cc9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <35e7a4fd0805290932w7b749fces12100bd30743f6cb@mail.gmail.com>

So what is on the docket for July?  I second that as an excellent topic.

On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 11:30 AM, Troy Denkinger <tdenkinger at gmail.com> wrote:
> I agree, Nate.  I've gotten some great and thoughtful responses both
> on the list and privately from my original posting.
>
> Troy
>
> On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 12:20 PM, Nate Kirby <natebkirby at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> I personnally would love to get an experienced engineers take on
>> performance, scaling, profiling and RoR.  This might make for a great
>> session at Chirb.  At least seeing the email traffic would be interesting to
>> me.
>>
>> Blessings,
>> Nate
>>
>> Leon Chism wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Troy. I'm currently the CTO of a Rails based startup called
>>> Viewpoints.com and was formerly the Chief Architect at Orbitz, so I know a
>>> bit about scale, Java, and Ruby. I'd like to help if I can, but it probably
>>> makes sense to get into the details of their concerns. If you want to do
>>> that on this list, that's fine, otherwise you can email me directly at leon
>>> at chism dot org.
>>>
>>> To get the conversation started:
>>>
>>> I'm curious what "large scale Rails deployment" means to you. We are not
>>> small, but we aren't huge either (Alexa 38,040; Compete 5,684). We have
>>> spent a fair amount of time thinking about the metrics to track and how to
>>> recreate some of the tools we used in the Java world for
>>> ops/monitoring/management.
>>>
>>> It sounds like the issue is scaling but might also be operationalization
>>> of the platform. Have they raised more specific concerns than "we know java
>>> better"?
>>>
>>> leon
>>>
>>> On May 27, 2008, at 4:00 PM, Troy Denkinger wrote:
>>>
>>>> All,
>>>>
>>>> I'm right in the midst of advocating for use of Rails on a project I'm
>>>> in the middle of.  I manage a team that has created a service that
>>>> runs on Rails.  To date we've been in development and haven't had any
>>>> serious outside usage, nor have we deployed on production-ready
>>>> hardware.  We are very happy with the ease of development, how
>>>> responsive we can be to the business requirements, and the support
>>>> we've found within the community at large.
>>>>
>>>> Recently we have been asked to merge our service into an existing
>>>> company that has always used a Java stack in their development.  They
>>>> have a couple developers and an operations team that is comfortable
>>>> with Java.  The major concern about using our Rails code is that they
>>>> are concerned with scaling of Rails apps in general, and they are
>>>> using that concern to advocate a port of the existing Rails code to
>>>> their Java stack.
>>>>
>>>> I know one thing that would make the Ops team happy is to talk to
>>>> someone who has actual experience with large-scale Rails deployments.
>>>> I think they're being rightly pragmatic about this, and I'd like to
>>>> find them someone to talk to.  Anyone know anyone who would be willing
>>>> to talk a bit about what they've done to scale a Rails installation?
>>>> I'm sure I could work up some sort of compensation for someone with
>>>> relevant experience who'd like to share it.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Troy
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
>>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
>>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
>

From jcroneme at thoughtworks.com  Thu May 29 12:48:28 2008
From: jcroneme at thoughtworks.com (Josh Cronemeyer)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 11:48:28 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] June Meeting Note
Message-ID: <OFBE50F55A.01958A91-ON86257458.005BEBD9-88257458.005C5379@thoughtworks.com>

Hey folks,

I'm on a project in sunny San Francisco right now and chances are I'll 
miss the June meeting.  Another TWer, Kent Spillner, is going to be 
organizing in my stead.  I am going to put his cell up on the website for 
those of you who forget to RSVP and are stuck in the web of AON's crack 
security team.  Just thought I'd give a heads up!

Josh Cronemeyer
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From natebkirby at yahoo.com  Thu May 29 12:56:00 2008
From: natebkirby at yahoo.com (Nate Kirby)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 11:56:00 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] Rails Scaling Experience?
In-Reply-To: <35e7a4fd0805290932w7b749fces12100bd30743f6cb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <b98e048e0805271400s7adf8e92n8a413f22b7cfb543@mail.gmail.com>	<F5624E6D-4985-4457-B4A2-312650D64154@chism.org>	<483ED7B0.8030203@yahoo.com>	<b98e048e0805290930t4f7f240emd320da6672c05cc9@mail.gmail.com>
	<35e7a4fd0805290932w7b749fces12100bd30743f6cb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <483EE020.3040006@yahoo.com>

I will be out during July - Could this topic wait until Aug? Please?

Lydia Tripp wrote:
> So what is on the docket for July?  I second that as an excellent topic.
>
> On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 11:30 AM, Troy Denkinger <tdenkinger at gmail.com> wrote:
>   
>> I agree, Nate.  I've gotten some great and thoughtful responses both
>> on the list and privately from my original posting.
>>
>> Troy
>>
>> On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 12:20 PM, Nate Kirby <natebkirby at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>     
>>> I personnally would love to get an experienced engineers take on
>>> performance, scaling, profiling and RoR.  This might make for a great
>>> session at Chirb.  At least seeing the email traffic would be interesting to
>>> me.
>>>
>>> Blessings,
>>> Nate
>>>
>>> Leon Chism wrote:
>>>       
>>>> Hi Troy. I'm currently the CTO of a Rails based startup called
>>>> Viewpoints.com and was formerly the Chief Architect at Orbitz, so I know a
>>>> bit about scale, Java, and Ruby. I'd like to help if I can, but it probably
>>>> makes sense to get into the details of their concerns. If you want to do
>>>> that on this list, that's fine, otherwise you can email me directly at leon
>>>> at chism dot org.
>>>>
>>>> To get the conversation started:
>>>>
>>>> I'm curious what "large scale Rails deployment" means to you. We are not
>>>> small, but we aren't huge either (Alexa 38,040; Compete 5,684). We have
>>>> spent a fair amount of time thinking about the metrics to track and how to
>>>> recreate some of the tools we used in the Java world for
>>>> ops/monitoring/management.
>>>>
>>>> It sounds like the issue is scaling but might also be operationalization
>>>> of the platform. Have they raised more specific concerns than "we know java
>>>> better"?
>>>>
>>>> leon
>>>>
>>>> On May 27, 2008, at 4:00 PM, Troy Denkinger wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         
>>>>> All,
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm right in the midst of advocating for use of Rails on a project I'm
>>>>> in the middle of.  I manage a team that has created a service that
>>>>> runs on Rails.  To date we've been in development and haven't had any
>>>>> serious outside usage, nor have we deployed on production-ready
>>>>> hardware.  We are very happy with the ease of development, how
>>>>> responsive we can be to the business requirements, and the support
>>>>> we've found within the community at large.
>>>>>
>>>>> Recently we have been asked to merge our service into an existing
>>>>> company that has always used a Java stack in their development.  They
>>>>> have a couple developers and an operations team that is comfortable
>>>>> with Java.  The major concern about using our Rails code is that they
>>>>> are concerned with scaling of Rails apps in general, and they are
>>>>> using that concern to advocate a port of the existing Rails code to
>>>>> their Java stack.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know one thing that would make the Ops team happy is to talk to
>>>>> someone who has actual experience with large-scale Rails deployments.
>>>>> I think they're being rightly pragmatic about this, and I'd like to
>>>>> find them someone to talk to.  Anyone know anyone who would be willing
>>>>> to talk a bit about what they've done to scale a Rails installation?
>>>>> I'm sure I could work up some sort of compensation for someone with
>>>>> relevant experience who'd like to share it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Troy
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
>>>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
>>>>>           
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
>>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
>>>>
>>>>         
>> _______________________________________________
>> ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
>>
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
>
>   
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From jcroneme at thoughtworks.com  Thu May 29 12:57:34 2008
From: jcroneme at thoughtworks.com (Josh Cronemeyer)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 11:57:34 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] Rails Scaling Experience?
In-Reply-To: <35e7a4fd0805290932w7b749fces12100bd30743f6cb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <OF6578FFC3.2E0C4C83-ON86257458.005D2488-88257458.005D28BD@thoughtworks.com>

Nothing is on the docket for July.

Josh Cronemeyer



"Lydia Tripp" <lydia.tripp at gmail.com> 
Sent by: chicagogroup-members-list-bounces at rubyforge.org
05/29/08 09:32 AM
Please respond to
Chirb discussion list <chicagogroup-members-list at rubyforge.org>


To
"Chirb discussion list" <chicagogroup-members-list at rubyforge.org>
cc

Subject
Re: [Chirb] Rails Scaling Experience?






So what is on the docket for July?  I second that as an excellent topic.

On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 11:30 AM, Troy Denkinger <tdenkinger at gmail.com> 
wrote:
> I agree, Nate.  I've gotten some great and thoughtful responses both
> on the list and privately from my original posting.
>
> Troy
>
> On Thu, May 29, 2008 at 12:20 PM, Nate Kirby <natebkirby at yahoo.com> 
wrote:
>> I personnally would love to get an experienced engineers take on
>> performance, scaling, profiling and RoR.  This might make for a great
>> session at Chirb.  At least seeing the email traffic would be 
interesting to
>> me.
>>
>> Blessings,
>> Nate
>>
>> Leon Chism wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Troy. I'm currently the CTO of a Rails based startup called
>>> Viewpoints.com and was formerly the Chief Architect at Orbitz, so I 
know a
>>> bit about scale, Java, and Ruby. I'd like to help if I can, but it 
probably
>>> makes sense to get into the details of their concerns. If you want to 
do
>>> that on this list, that's fine, otherwise you can email me directly at 
leon
>>> at chism dot org.
>>>
>>> To get the conversation started:
>>>
>>> I'm curious what "large scale Rails deployment" means to you. We are 
not
>>> small, but we aren't huge either (Alexa 38,040; Compete 5,684). We 
have
>>> spent a fair amount of time thinking about the metrics to track and 
how to
>>> recreate some of the tools we used in the Java world for
>>> ops/monitoring/management.
>>>
>>> It sounds like the issue is scaling but might also be 
operationalization
>>> of the platform. Have they raised more specific concerns than "we know 
java
>>> better"?
>>>
>>> leon
>>>
>>> On May 27, 2008, at 4:00 PM, Troy Denkinger wrote:
>>>
>>>> All,
>>>>
>>>> I'm right in the midst of advocating for use of Rails on a project 
I'm
>>>> in the middle of.  I manage a team that has created a service that
>>>> runs on Rails.  To date we've been in development and haven't had any
>>>> serious outside usage, nor have we deployed on production-ready
>>>> hardware.  We are very happy with the ease of development, how
>>>> responsive we can be to the business requirements, and the support
>>>> we've found within the community at large.
>>>>
>>>> Recently we have been asked to merge our service into an existing
>>>> company that has always used a Java stack in their development.  They
>>>> have a couple developers and an operations team that is comfortable
>>>> with Java.  The major concern about using our Rails code is that they
>>>> are concerned with scaling of Rails apps in general, and they are
>>>> using that concern to advocate a port of the existing Rails code to
>>>> their Java stack.
>>>>
>>>> I know one thing that would make the Ops team happy is to talk to
>>>> someone who has actual experience with large-scale Rails deployments.
>>>> I think they're being rightly pragmatic about this, and I'd like to
>>>> find them someone to talk to.  Anyone know anyone who would be 
willing
>>>> to talk a bit about what they've done to scale a Rails installation?
>>>> I'm sure I could work up some sort of compensation for someone with
>>>> relevant experience who'd like to share it.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Troy
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
>>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
>>> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
>>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
> http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list
>
_______________________________________________
ChicagoGroup-Members-List at rubyforge.org
http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/chicagogroup-members-list

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From tyler.jennings at gmail.com  Thu May 29 17:06:28 2008
From: tyler.jennings at gmail.com (Tyler Jennings)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 16:06:28 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] Rails Scaling Experience?
In-Reply-To: <OF6578FFC3.2E0C4C83-ON86257458.005D2488-88257458.005D28BD@thoughtworks.com>
References: <35e7a4fd0805290932w7b749fces12100bd30743f6cb@mail.gmail.com>
	<OF6578FFC3.2E0C4C83-ON86257458.005D2488-88257458.005D28BD@thoughtworks.com>
Message-ID: <aaab01370805291406p31af6908qb1714162a94e116f@mail.gmail.com>

> I personnally would love to get an experienced engineers take on
> performance, scaling, profiling and RoR.

I think each one of those could be a session =].  Do we want a 30k
foot-view of the whole landscape or an in-depth talk on each topic?

I'm willing to present on any of these topics individually or a
higher-level talk for all of them, but I think many of you might be
disappointed by the latter sort of talk.

I can also provide the same sort of talk for RoR on JRuby, which might
be more interesting to some of you.

I've been to a number of the chirb talks, but most of you probably
don't know me well.  I'm a Senior Consultant at Obtiva and I've been
building Rails apps for a couple of years now.  Before that I worked
as a consultant in J2EE land for a number of years.

My current project is a JRuby / RoR port of a Java stack web
application (Struts2/Spring IOC/Hibernate) for a large international
retailer.  We launched about 4 months ago and now have around 40% of
the site rendered with Rails.  Performance and scalability is
certainly a concern for our client, so I have a lot of recent research
to offer in this area.

I'm also preparing another talk based on this project that will
discuss our approach for the integration of JRuby & Rails with an
existing Java web application.  I would also like to present this at
chirb, if there is any interest.

-Tyler Jennings

From jake.scruggs at gmail.com  Thu May 29 23:39:02 2008
From: jake.scruggs at gmail.com (Jake Scruggs)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 22:39:02 -0500
Subject: [Chirb] Rails Scaling Experience?
In-Reply-To: <aaab01370805291406p31af6908qb1714162a94e116f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <35e7a4fd0805290932w7b749fces12100bd30743f6cb@mail.gmail.com>
	<OF6578FFC3.2E0C4C83-ON86257458.005D2488-88257458.005D28BD@thoughtworks.com>
	<aaab01370805291406p31af6908qb1714162a94e116f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <215638340805292039k3cb9cffclfca88eca010be453@mail.gmail.com>

> My current project is a JRuby / RoR port of a Java stack web
> application (Struts2/Spring IOC/Hibernate) for a large international
> retailer.  We launched about 4 months ago and now have around 40% of
> the site rendered with Rails.  Performance and scalability is
> certainly a concern for our client, so I have a lot of recent research
> to offer in this area.
>
> I'm also preparing another talk based on this project that will
> discuss our approach for the integration of JRuby & Rails with an
> existing Java web application.  I would also like to present this at
> chirb, if there is any interest.
>
>

I saw a bit of this presentation the other day at Obtiva (full disclosure --
I am an Obtivan now) and it's pretty cool.  I think a lot of people would be
interested in seeing the strangler pattern applied to a struts project using
Rails.

-Jake
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