From rodrigo.moraes at gmail.com Tue Sep 13 19:22:37 2005 From: rodrigo.moraes at gmail.com (Rodrigo Moraes) Date: Tue Sep 13 19:15:26 2005 Subject: advice, please Message-ID: Hi! I plan to start a brazilian portuguese translation to WPGtR. Because Ruby should be best known here in Brazil and because it will be fun. The (poignant) Guide is incredible. I was digging the archives and trying to find some kind of guidelines or useful info to translators, if there are any. Someone mentioned a README, and I don't know if it was a joke or if it is somewhere below my eyes (I couldn't find it). So I just ask for some advice from those who have already started the traslation, before I start the job. Hey, may the chunky bacon be with you! Hmmm. duh. regards, moraes ------------------------------------------------------------ e-mail / msn: rodrigo [dot] moraes [at] gmail [you.know.what] jabber: moraes@jabber.org icq: 75 90 80 80 ------------------------------------------------------------ From sl33p3r at free.fr Wed Sep 14 06:17:42 2005 From: sl33p3r at free.fr (Frederick Ros) Date: Wed Sep 14 05:42:32 2005 Subject: advice, please In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050914101742.GA8790@hal.void.org> Rodrigo Moraes wrote : | Hi! | I was digging the archives and trying to find some kind of guidelines | or useful info to translators, if there are any. Someone mentioned a | README, and I don't know if it was a joke or if it is somewhere below | my eyes (I couldn't find it). Well .. In fact the READme is present on the CVS version. The simplest is to get the CVS version from rubyforge, and to work with it. To build the whole stuff, you'll need the latest RedCloth from CVS (_why has not yet published it :( ), as well as syntax (available through gem) to highlight ruby code. I began on the French translation (not done a lot of work since then though, but I plan on working at it again next week), by copying poignant.yml to poignant-fr.yml, and editing it. I think that we'll have to rethink about the poignant.rb stuff in order it build a given translation ... I do not know if _why plans to host the translation together with the original though. Best Regards, -- Frederick Ros aka Sleeper -- sleeper@jabber.fr "Whip me. Beat me. Make me maintain AIX." (By Stephan Zielinski) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/poignant-translators/attachments/20050914/5ee9ed50/attachment.bin From rodrigo.moraes at gmail.com Wed Sep 14 08:33:01 2005 From: rodrigo.moraes at gmail.com (Rodrigo Moraes) Date: Wed Sep 14 08:25:48 2005 Subject: advice, please In-Reply-To: <20050914101742.GA8790@hal.void.org> References: <20050914101742.GA8790@hal.void.org> Message-ID: On 9/14/05, Frederick Ros wrote: > The simplest is to get the CVS version from rubyforge, and to work with > it. Thanks, Frederick. I'll get it! moraes ------------------------------------------------------------ e-mail / msn: rodrigo [dot] moraes [at] gmail [you.know.what] jabber: moraes@jabber.org icq: 75 90 80 80 ------------------------------------------------------------ From why at poignantguide.net Thu Sep 15 12:45:34 2005 From: why at poignantguide.net (why the lucky stiff) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 10:45:34 -0600 Subject: advice, please In-Reply-To: <20050914101742.GA8790@hal.void.org> References: <20050914101742.GA8790@hal.void.org> Message-ID: <4329A52E.9060504@poignantguide.net> Frederick Ros wrote: >To build the whole stuff, you'll need the latest RedCloth from CVS (_why >has not yet published it :( ), as well as syntax (available through gem) >to highlight ruby code. > > The new RedCloth (3.0.4) is now available. gem install RedCloth. >I do not know if _why plans to host the translation together with the >original though. > > I do. Any translations which want hosting at poignantguide.net may have it, of course. Let me ask you this. How can I best accomodate translations? What are all of your needs? _why From sl33p3r at free.fr Thu Sep 15 15:36:57 2005 From: sl33p3r at free.fr (Frederick Ros) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:36:57 +0200 Subject: advice, please In-Reply-To: <4329A52E.9060504@poignantguide.net> References: <20050914101742.GA8790@hal.void.org> <4329A52E.9060504@poignantguide.net> Message-ID: <20050915193657.GB8842@hal.void.org> why the lucky stiff wrote : | Frederick Ros wrote: | The new RedCloth (3.0.4) is now available. gem install RedCloth. Yeah .. it rocks !!! | I do. Any translations which want hosting at poignantguide.net may have | it, of course. | | Let me ask you this. How can I best accomodate translations? What are | all of your needs? Actually I would need an area to store my work .. I think that either an access to the poignant repository (or at least part of it) would be great ... As I mentioned earlier I'll have to work sometime from my work, but I can only HTTP or FTP from there... However I found a solution, by using bazaar-NG as my SCM system .. so no problem here ;) I also think that it would be great to have all of the translation hosted on poignantguide.net, in order to ease access for users. On a slightly more 'technical' part, I think that poignant.rb should be able to build each translation (or all of them if needed), but this is minor coding ;) At least the most difficult part for the translation are the comics ... I know you proposed to rework them for each translation, but don't you think it's quite a lot of work ?? The other solution I can see would be for us, translators, to manually alter the comics text, in order to translate them too ( .. loosing, I fear, your personal touch for the font ;) I think also that I'll keep the 'Chunky Beacon' shout as is, even if it's not French: it becomes like MOTO, and I think it must be untouched in translations ;) -- Frederick Ros aka Sleeper -- sleeper at jabber.fr Don't stop at one bug. - The Elements of Programming Style (Kernighan & Plaugher) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/poignant-translators/attachments/20050915/9fb70358/attachment.bin From murphy at cYcnus.de Thu Sep 15 16:07:31 2005 From: murphy at cYcnus.de (murphy) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 22:07:31 +0200 Subject: advice, please In-Reply-To: <20050915193657.GB8842@hal.void.org> References: <20050914101742.GA8790@hal.void.org> <4329A52E.9060504@poignantguide.net> <20050915193657.GB8842@hal.void.org> Message-ID: <4329D483.8090505@cYcnus.de> > I think also that I'll keep the 'Chunky Beacon' shout as is, even if > it's not French: it becomes like MOTO, and I think it must be untouched > in translations ;) I have decided the same way for the German edition. seems we will get the guide in more languages than the pickaxe ^^ it would be great if the author makes the templates more dynamic for easy translation. a YAML file with a translation hash would be best. I started doing this, but since the templates changed a while ago, I have to do it again. could you do this, why? international bacon! [murphy] From rodrigo.moraes at gmail.com Thu Sep 15 20:29:08 2005 From: rodrigo.moraes at gmail.com (Rodrigo Moraes) Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 21:29:08 -0300 Subject: advice, please In-Reply-To: <4329A52E.9060504@poignantguide.net> References: <20050914101742.GA8790@hal.void.org> <4329A52E.9060504@poignantguide.net> Message-ID: On 9/15/05, why the lucky stiff wrote: > The new RedCloth (3.0.4) is now available. gem install RedCloth. Disclaimer: I'm a Ruby newbie. For some reason, the gem install procedure for RedCloth didn't work. It said it was successfully installed, but poignant.rb couldn't find it. It worked when I installed it manually using the site instructions, with a small update (the site says install.rb, but it should be setup.rb). Then I tried to build WPGtR and the syntax highlight library wasn't found. Again, I tried gem install syntax, and I got the same error reported here: http://rubyforge.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=2107&group_id=505&atid=2009 (well, it seems my gems install is broken) I installed the syntax highlight library manually and install.rb worked fine! I'm studying the files right now and will start the translation this weekend. A friend offered to help with it (I only made a requirement: let me translate the Foxes chapter). I will host the builds during the work, and once it is done it can surely move to poignantguide.net. We will also keep "Chunky Bacon!" in the Portuguese version, since "Toucinho Totoso!" doesn't sound good. Hmmm, does "Chunky Bacon!" sound good? :P And, well, we'll keep the cartoons untranslated (maybe a legend would be good?) at least until we find an artist to do a similar font artwork. regards, Rodrigo Moraes PS: I've noticed today that poignantguide.net is now #1 on google when searching for "ruby guide". Last week it was on second place, after the PickAxe book. Hehe. :D From sl33p3r at free.fr Fri Sep 16 09:37:29 2005 From: sl33p3r at free.fr (Frederick Ros) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:37:29 +0200 Subject: advice, please In-Reply-To: References: <20050914101742.GA8790@hal.void.org> <4329A52E.9060504@poignantguide.net> Message-ID: <20050916133729.GB9734@hal.void.org> Rodrigo Moraes wrote : | I installed the syntax highlight library manually and install.rb | worked fine! I'm studying the files right now and will start the | translation this weekend. A friend offered to help with it (I only | made a requirement: let me translate the Foxes chapter). I will host | the builds during the work, and once it is done it can surely move to | poignantguide.net. In order to use RedCloth an d Syntax from the gem install, I modified the require section of poignant.rb to : require 'erb' require 'ftools' require 'yaml' require 'rubygems' require_gem 'RedCloth', '= 3.0.4' require 'syntax/convertors/html' in oredr to ask for RedCloth 3.0.4 as installed by gem (if I only did a require 'redcloth' it first looks for the redcloth installed in the site_ruby directory. -- Frederick Ros aka Sleeper -- sleeper at jabber.fr "Never make any mistaeks." (Anonymous, in a mail discussion about to a kernel bug report.) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/poignant-translators/attachments/20050916/d31e31ed/attachment.bin From sl33p3r at free.fr Fri Sep 16 12:55:00 2005 From: sl33p3r at free.fr (Frederick Ros) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 18:55:00 +0200 Subject: advice, please In-Reply-To: <4329A52E.9060504@poignantguide.net> References: <20050914101742.GA8790@hal.void.org> <4329A52E.9060504@poignantguide.net> Message-ID: <20050916165500.GB10025@hal.void.org> why the lucky stiff wrote : | Let me ask you this. How can I best accomodate translations? What are | all of your needs? Hi _why, I add a look at poignant.rb and index.rb and modified them a little bit. * poignant.rb now takes an optional parameter (fr/en/br for example) that indicate which translation to ouput. For example poignant.rb /foo/bar fr, will use the poignant-fr.yml file to create a french translation. Not that if we go this way and want to be consistent it would be better to rename poignant.yml to poignant-en.yml * index.rb now use the value of the optional parameter to indicate the language the content is written in. Note also that I should add something (hash in a YAML file for example) to deal with encoding pertaining to each language ... What do you think of this ? -- Frederick Ros aka Sleeper -- sleeper at jabber.fr "On a normal ascii line, the only safe condition to detect is a 'BREAK' - everything else having been assigned functions by Gnu EMACS." (By Tarl Neustaedter) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/poignant-translators/attachments/20050916/3bb8077a/attachment.bin From why at poignantguide.net Fri Sep 16 12:40:25 2005 From: why at poignantguide.net (why the lucky stiff) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:40:25 -0600 Subject: advice, please In-Reply-To: <20050916165500.GB10025@hal.void.org> References: <20050914101742.GA8790@hal.void.org> <4329A52E.9060504@poignantguide.net> <20050916165500.GB10025@hal.void.org> Message-ID: <432AF579.3020904@poignantguide.net> Frederick Ros wrote: >I add a look at poignant.rb and index.rb and modified them a little bit. > > * poignant.rb now takes an optional parameter (fr/en/br for example) > that indicate which translation to ouput. For example poignant.rb > /foo/bar fr, will use the poignant-fr.yml file to create a french > translation. Not that if we go this way and want to be consistent it > would be better to rename poignant.yml to poignant-en.yml > > * index.rb now use the value of the optional parameter to indicate the > language the content is written in. Note also that I should add > something (hash in a YAML file for example) to deal with encoding > pertaining to each language ... > >What do you think of this ? > > Perfect. So does this mean that all the English text from the erb pages should be placed in poignant-en.yml as well? _why From sl33p3r at free.fr Fri Sep 16 13:32:12 2005 From: sl33p3r at free.fr (Frederick Ros) Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 19:32:12 +0200 Subject: advice, please In-Reply-To: <432AF579.3020904@poignantguide.net> References: <20050914101742.GA8790@hal.void.org> <4329A52E.9060504@poignantguide.net> <20050916165500.GB10025@hal.void.org> <432AF579.3020904@poignantguide.net> Message-ID: <20050916173212.GC10025@hal.void.org> why the lucky stiff wrote : | Perfect. So does this mean that all the English text from the erb pages | should be placed in poignant-en.yml as well? Yep .. or we can also follow the porposition of murphy which aims at splitting the poignant guide into YAML files, and to have a kind of 'aggregator'. This way all the aggregation part (i.e. the "logic" of th ebook making) would be common to all version, and each YAML file will be translated into several languages. Note also that I have a bug when regenerating the poignant guide from the CVS version : the followng text ** The official home page for the Ruby language. Now, if you can't seem to find the contents link on the left-hand side of the page, then here's a link to the "first page":chapter-1.html of the (Poignant) Guide. If you want to venture onto my other projects, go "whytheluckystiff.net":http://www.whytheluckystiff.net. which should render as:
  • The official home page for the Ruby language.

    • Now, if you can't seem to find the contents link on the left-hand side of the page, then here's a link to the "first page":chapter-1.html of the (Poignant) Guide. If you want to venture onto my other projects, go "whytheluckystiff.net":http://www.whytheluckystiff.net. renders into:

  • The official home page for the Ruby language.
    Now, if you can’t seem to find the contents link on the left-hand side of the page, then here’s a link to the first page of the (Poignant) Guide. If you want to venture onto my other projects, go whytheluckystiff.net.
    Welcome to the pirate radio of technical manuals.
    • Is this a bug from my config or does anyone has the same error ?? -- Frederick Ros aka Sleeper -- sleeper at jabber.fr Treat end of file conditions in a uniform manner. - The Elements of Programming Style (Kernighan & Plaugher) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/poignant-translators/attachments/20050916/380c7a81/attachment.bin From rodrigo.moraes at gmail.com Sun Sep 18 23:59:12 2005 From: rodrigo.moraes at gmail.com (Rodrigo Moraes) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 00:59:12 -0300 Subject: advice, please In-Reply-To: <20050916173212.GC10025@hal.void.org> References: <20050914101742.GA8790@hal.void.org> <4329A52E.9060504@poignantguide.net> <20050916165500.GB10025@hal.void.org> <432AF579.3020904@poignantguide.net> <20050916173212.GC10025@hal.void.org> Message-ID: Hi! Some progress on the portuguese translation can be seen here: http://guia.rubybr.org/ I replaced the css by the one from the current site, plus added missing images got from there, and maybe this caused some odd issues like the paragraphs are not so well formatted in this version (see "The Dog History" subsection). But it was a pleasure to see the chapters built right after translation! Very stimulating! :-D I expect to start the third chapter until the end of this week. regards, moraes From sl33p3r at free.fr Mon Sep 19 04:32:02 2005 From: sl33p3r at free.fr (Frederick Ros) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 10:32:02 +0200 Subject: advice, please In-Reply-To: References: <20050914101742.GA8790@hal.void.org> <4329A52E.9060504@poignantguide.net> <20050916165500.GB10025@hal.void.org> <432AF579.3020904@poignantguide.net> <20050916173212.GC10025@hal.void.org> Message-ID: <20050919083202.GA8967@hal.void.org> Rodrigo Moraes wrote : | Hi! | Some progress on the portuguese translation can be seen here: | http://guia.rubybr.org/ | | I replaced the css by the one from the current site, plus added | missing images got from there, and maybe this caused some odd issues | like the paragraphs are not so well formatted in this version (see | "The Dog History" subsection). | | But it was a pleasure to see the chapters built right after | translation! Very stimulating! :-D | | I expect to start the third chapter until the end of this week. Nice ! You're definitively faster than me ;) It seems you got the same rendering bug I mentionned earlier too (at the end of the 1st page) Best Regards, -- Frederick Ros aka Sleeper -- sleeper at jabber.fr "It's God. No, not Richard Stallman, or Linus Torvalds, but God." (By Matt Welsh) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/poignant-translators/attachments/20050919/0737976d/attachment.bin From rodrigo.moraes at gmail.com Mon Sep 19 08:38:06 2005 From: rodrigo.moraes at gmail.com (Rodrigo Moraes) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 09:38:06 -0300 Subject: advice, please In-Reply-To: <20050919083202.GA8967@hal.void.org> References: <20050914101742.GA8790@hal.void.org> <4329A52E.9060504@poignantguide.net> <20050916165500.GB10025@hal.void.org> <432AF579.3020904@poignantguide.net> <20050916173212.GC10025@hal.void.org> <20050919083202.GA8967@hal.void.org> Message-ID: On 9/19/05, Frederick Ros wrote: > Nice ! You're definitively faster than me ;) Ha! There was some free time (and a lot of rain) in the weekend. ;-) > It seems you got the same rendering bug I mentionned earlier too (at the > end of the 1st page) Indeed. I saw another one: the blockquote in the end of the Dog Story isn't closed right after: "Oh, look, a Nokia!", like it should be. Generally, the format seems a bit different from the original, but I guess this may be because the CVS version was submitted before a lot of improvements were made. cheers, moraes ------------------------------------------------------------ e-mail / msn: rodrigo [dot] moraes [at] gmail [you.know.what] jabber: moraes at jabber.org icq: 75 90 80 80 ------------------------------------------------------------ From sl33p3r at free.fr Mon Sep 19 10:03:59 2005 From: sl33p3r at free.fr (Frederick Ros) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 16:03:59 +0200 Subject: advice, please In-Reply-To: References: <20050914101742.GA8790@hal.void.org> <4329A52E.9060504@poignantguide.net> <20050916165500.GB10025@hal.void.org> <432AF579.3020904@poignantguide.net> <20050916173212.GC10025@hal.void.org> <20050919083202.GA8967@hal.void.org> Message-ID: <20050919140359.GB8967@hal.void.org> Rodrigo Moraes wrote : | Generally, the format seems a bit different from the original, but I | guess this may be because the CVS version was submitted before a lot | of improvements were made. This is why I think the idea of murphy was quite good: splitting the book in several YAML files, would allow more simple merge for translators when the original changes. ;) -- Frederick Ros aka Sleeper -- sleeper at jabber.fr Test input for validity and plausibility. - The Elements of Programming Style (Kernighan & Plaugher) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/poignant-translators/attachments/20050919/9f96d4f6/attachment.bin From rodrigo.moraes at gmail.com Mon Sep 19 10:49:05 2005 From: rodrigo.moraes at gmail.com (Rodrigo Moraes) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 11:49:05 -0300 Subject: advice, please In-Reply-To: <20050919140359.GB8967@hal.void.org> References: <20050914101742.GA8790@hal.void.org> <4329A52E.9060504@poignantguide.net> <20050916165500.GB10025@hal.void.org> <432AF579.3020904@poignantguide.net> <20050916173212.GC10025@hal.void.org> <20050919083202.GA8967@hal.void.org> <20050919140359.GB8967@hal.void.org> Message-ID: On 9/19/05, Frederick Ros wrote: > This is why I think the idea of murphy was quite good: splitting the > book in several YAML files, would allow more simple merge for > translators when the original changes. Not only for templates, I guess, but indeed, they should be translatable also. If chapters were splitted in their own files, they would be easier to manipulate and scan for updates if CVS is changed. moraes From sl33p3r at free.fr Mon Sep 19 11:31:11 2005 From: sl33p3r at free.fr (Frederick Ros) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:31:11 +0200 Subject: advice, please In-Reply-To: References: <20050914101742.GA8790@hal.void.org> <4329A52E.9060504@poignantguide.net> <20050916165500.GB10025@hal.void.org> <432AF579.3020904@poignantguide.net> <20050916173212.GC10025@hal.void.org> <20050919083202.GA8967@hal.void.org> <20050919140359.GB8967@hal.void.org> Message-ID: <20050919153111.GC8967@hal.void.org> Rodrigo Moraes wrote : | Not only for templates, I guess, but indeed, they should be | translatable also. If chapters were splitted in their own files, they | would be easier to manipulate and scan for updates if CVS is changed. Yep, you're right, that was exactly what I was thinking about ;) -- Frederick Ros aka Sleeper -- sleeper at jabber.fr Make the coupling between modules visible. - The Elements of Programming Style (Kernighan & Plaugher) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://rubyforge.org/pipermail/poignant-translators/attachments/20050919/b29a7939/attachment.bin From sl33p3r at free.fr Mon Sep 19 15:33:56 2005 From: sl33p3r at free.fr (Frederick Ros) Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 21:33:56 +0200 Subject: advice, please In-Reply-To: <20050919153111.GC8967@hal.void.org> References: <4329A52E.9060504@poignantguide.net> <20050916165500.GB10025@hal.void.org> <432AF579.3020904@poignantguide.net> <20050916173212.GC10025@hal.void.org> <20050919083202.GA8967@hal.void.org> <20050919140359.GB8967@hal.void.org> <20050919153111.GC8967@hal.void.org> Message-ID: <20050919193355.GD8967@hal.void.org> OK, for th etime being, and before talking about splitting YAML file, here is a little patch that ill allow to poignant.rb to produce some translated site (along the lines of what I explained). Currently only the 'fr' variante has a special encoding, other are left to utf8 ... as I do not knoz which one to add :) Best Regards -- Frederick Ros aka Sleeper -- sleeper at jabber.fr if (argc > 1 && strcmp(argv[1], "-advice") == 0) { printf("Don't Panic!\n"); exit(42); } (Arnold Robbins in the LJ of February '95, describing RCS) -------------- next part -------------- Index: chapter.erb =================================================================== RCS file: /var/cvs/poignant/wpgtr/chapter.erb,v retrieving revision 1.4 diff -r1.4 chapter.erb 4c4,6 < %> %> > "?> > --- > 8c10 < --- > Index: index.erb =================================================================== RCS file: /var/cvs/poignant/wpgtr/index.erb,v retrieving revision 1.6 diff -r1.6 index.erb 0a1 > "?> 3c4 < --- > 5d5 < 6a7 > Index: poignant.rb =================================================================== RCS file: /var/cvs/poignant/wpgtr/poignant.rb,v retrieving revision 1.7 diff -r1.7 poignant.rb 6a9,13 > ENCODINGS = { > 'fr' => 'ISO-8859-15' > } > > 126a134,145 > book = 'poignant.yml' > local = "en" > > > if ARGV[1] > # Localisation: fr, br .. > local = ARGV[1] > book = "poignant-#{local}.yml" > end > > encoding = ENCODINGS[local] || "utf-8" > 128c147 < book = WhyTheLuckyStiff::Book::load( 'poignant.yml' ) --- > book = WhyTheLuckyStiff::Book::load( book ) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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